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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275851: Mar 27th 2019 at 12:58:29 AM

The big thing about the GND that Mitch underestimated is the fact the big problem for the Democrats is no one has had any luck making a coherent "big plan" since Obamacare.

Hillary had a lot of patches but the GND (like Bernie's arguments) sounds like an overhaul and that is an easier to sell than patches.

Paradoxical as that may sound.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 27th 2019 at 2:33:04 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#275852: Mar 27th 2019 at 1:45:45 AM

And, speaking as an aspiring climatologist, it's far from clear that "a patch" is of any use against climate change.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275853: Mar 27th 2019 at 2:31:52 AM

I think the thing about the GND is that it's one of those things the GOP thought would go over like a lead balloon but is gradually getting more and more support.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 27th 2019 at 2:33:30 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#275854: Mar 27th 2019 at 2:35:45 AM

The worst part of all that is that Clinton and Sanders had pretty much the exact same climate policy. They had pretty similar platforms in general in the end, though Clinton actually seemed to have an idea of how everything was going to get done.

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275855: Mar 27th 2019 at 2:38:23 AM

Edit:

The Democrats are very close together on their climate policies.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 27th 2019 at 2:39:00 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#275856: Mar 27th 2019 at 2:55:57 AM

They were very close together on pretty much all their policies. Clinton just came off as more practical than Sanders, which made her ideas seem less radical.

They should have sent a poet.
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#275857: Mar 27th 2019 at 3:15:58 AM

I don't mean to create discord here, but it was the democratic party platform of 2016, made with no input from Clinton and Sanders that were closely aligned, not the two candidates. Just look at healthcare.

Life is unfair...
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275858: Mar 27th 2019 at 8:31:56 AM

Speaking as someone who has studied both's policies, no they really weren't. There's two different takes on Bernie and Hillary on these boards.

1. That they were incredibly different and Hillary was the better candidate. 2. They weren't that different at all.

I tend to believe Hillary's economic policy was weak and they were very different. I just have moved away from Bernie since on his social policy.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 27th 2019 at 8:32:29 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#275859: Mar 27th 2019 at 8:35:57 AM

At the big picture level, Clinton and Sanders had a number of similar policy positions and a few significant differences. What I appreciated about her campaign was the sheer detail that was put into exploring those positions, providing rationales and evidence supporting each. You could go onto the campaign website and get what practically amounted to a white paper for them. This doesn't mean I agreed with every single one, of course. That's not the point.

Someone running for President should put forth the effort to demonstrate that they have more than a superficial or "populist" understanding of their positions. You get elected on popularity, but once you're in office, the details become important.

Sanders has never shown any evidence, that I can see at least, that he has more than a surface understanding of each of his platform positions. Maybe he does, but if so it's not apparent. Warren most certainly does understand her main positions, or at least has spent a great deal of time developing and advocating for them. That alone doesn't mean they are good positions, but it shows effort.

With Clinton, I knew exactly what I was getting, across every aspect of governance, down to the last detail.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 27th 2019 at 11:44:56 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#275860: Mar 27th 2019 at 9:02:06 AM

Now see I remember Paul Krugman - not a fan of Bernie - concluding from his debates with Hillary that Sanders had actual understanding of banking policy, coherent with his committee memberships as a representative.

Trump complains to senators that Puerto Rico gets too much hurricane relief money - based on a misunderstood number apparently.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#275861: Mar 27th 2019 at 9:20:12 AM

Fuck him

One friend mentioned on a mission trip to Puerto Rico that there is still areas without consistent power and water

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#275862: Mar 27th 2019 at 9:35:31 AM

[up][up][up][up] It’s funny you should say that, because when you got down to it Sanders and Clinton ended up being pretty damn close on economic policy too. Once you looked past all the pie in the sky stuff that he essentially offered no plan for, what he was actually suggesting we do was more or less the same as the basic Democratic platform.

They should have sent a poet.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275863: Mar 27th 2019 at 10:29:17 AM

Okay, Trump, ball's in your court. Tell us your brilliant plan for Trumpcare.

The nation's listening.

I honestly would not be surprised if Trump pushed a Repeal and Replace plan wherein the ACA is repealed 100%, and replaced with a bill that is exactly identical to the ACA but is literally called The Trumpcare Act.

IIRC, I'm pretty sure he actually tried to do this back in 2017.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#275864: Mar 27th 2019 at 10:32:56 AM

No, that's what Obama encouraged him to do, I think.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#275865: Mar 27th 2019 at 10:50:08 AM

It would be a risky play anyway. I wouldn't put it past the Republicans to block every possible health care plan once they are rid of the ACA.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#275866: Mar 27th 2019 at 11:48:17 AM

Its obvious that Mitch and friends don't intend to replace the ACA with anything, they'd prefer the pre 2010 status quo...at best.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#275867: Mar 27th 2019 at 12:44:02 PM

[up] Does someone mind explaining exactly what the pre-2010 status Quo was?

I know the basics, but I'm not really old enough to know the specifics, since I was still in Grade School at the time.

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 27th 2019 at 3:45:11 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275868: Mar 27th 2019 at 12:47:27 PM

Mitch wants to remove all government support for people who can't afford medical coverage.

He's made many campaigns to try to Kill the Poor before.

And I am in Sincerity Mode when I say Not Hyperbole.

He has done his best to exaggerate the Kentucky opiod crisis, remove health care, remove food security, and remove any government assistance programs.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#275869: Mar 27th 2019 at 12:47:57 PM

It means a return of yearly and lifetime caps, which means people going fucking bankrupt again over medical bills (the belief that you run your own risks or some shit, nevermind that CHILDREN are often the ones these bills are for and that no one deserves to go bankrupt over fucking medical bills or basic living needs) taking several million people in their early twenties off of their parent's healthcare, and a return to health insurance companies basically denying you care AT ALL PERIOD because you've got some kind of pre-existing condition, or charging you out the ass, leading again to bankruptcy over medical bills.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#275870: Mar 27th 2019 at 12:48:32 PM

"exaggerate the Kentucky opioid crisis"

Did it need exaggerating? I thought they'd been downplaying it. What good would making it seem worse do them?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#275871: Mar 27th 2019 at 1:02:50 PM

It is a victory in a sense that Trump, the populist he is at heart, is talking about making the GOP the "party of healthcare". It means that he knows that healthcare is perceived by most as a pressing issue and that policies to make it more accessible are, well, popular.

It's not going to translate into any pro-medicare policy, of course. Trump's ear belongs to corporate interests, whatever he might spout out to provoke cheers from his fans. But the fact that he's even taking this tone at all might perhaps foreshadow some policy shifts in the very distant future, if the GOP and other conservative movements figure that being more supportive of healthcare services is a vote-getter they need to tap into.

Edited by DrDougsh on Mar 27th 2019 at 1:03:14 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#275872: Mar 27th 2019 at 1:13:06 PM

It is a victory in a sense that Trump, the populist he is at heart, is talking about making the GOP the "party of healthcare". It means that he knows that healthcare is perceived by most as a pressing issue and that policies to make it more accessible are, well, popular.

It's not going to translate into any pro-medicare policy, of course. Trump's ear belongs to corporate interests, whatever he might spout out to provoke cheers from his fans. But the fact that he's even taking this tone at all might perhaps foreshadow some policy shifts in the very distant future, if the GOP and other conservative movements figure that being more supportive of healthcare services is a vote-getter they need to tap into.

The Republicans lost the midterms because of healthcare. Trump is a moronic populist, he knows it's popular but is too stupid to realize that what's popular is what his opponents are offering.

This is no way a victory for Trump and co, if anything it will almost certainly overshadow any benefit they might've gotten from the Mueller investigation.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#275873: Mar 27th 2019 at 1:13:53 PM

[up][up][up]I think he meant Mc Connell was making it worse.

Edited by tclittle on Mar 27th 2019 at 3:14:18 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#275874: Mar 27th 2019 at 1:26:45 PM

[up]

Yeah, I think they meant to say exacerbate, not exaggerate.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#275875: Mar 27th 2019 at 1:28:08 PM

[up][up][up] I meant it was a victory over Trump, because the fact he now feels compelled to change his tune on healthcare means he's effectively lost that argument.


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