TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275776: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:19:56 PM

I cut off almost all contact with my dad for most of last summer/fall after he said it was the parents’ fault that children were (are) in camps.

I’ve ceased freezing him out because I’m trying to focus on the bigger fish. My persuadable Mother is a Republican voter who is horrified by the attack in New Zealand, attack on the synagogue, etc, but thinks democrats are still bad, and my centrist siblings (neither voted for Trump; sister is center left and brother is center dead middle).

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 26th 2019 at 4:20:10 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#275778: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:26:24 PM

A quick What the Fuck Just Happened Today preview:

The FBI is prepared to brief lawmakers on the counterintelligence findings of Mueller's investigation. The FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation into Trump, but William Barr's summary report of Mueller's findings didn't include any information about whether or not investigators found that Trump or anyone around him might be compromised or influenced by Russia. Officials expect the FBI to brief leaders from the House and Senate, as well as the chairs and ranking members of the intelligence committees in a closed session. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/fbi-expected-brief-house-senate-gang-8-mueller-s-counterintel-n987111

Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#275779: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:26:40 PM

And this is just the beginning no doubt.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#275780: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:27:18 PM

From my understanding of the situation, we can put them in camps(or perhaps the foster system) away from their parents, or in prison with them. I'm not sure the second is a better option.

(Then again, my immigration policy would be pretty close to open borders with no one in prison.)

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275781: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:31:43 PM

...

...

...

are you. are you kidding. You’re not sure keeping kids with their parents is better?!! Rather than KIDNAPPING THEM AND IMPRISONING THEM AND/OR LOSING THEM?!?!?!?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#275782: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:32:05 PM

Or we could not imprison the parents, or do so in a company town style system (where the families could stay together) rather than a guard towers and cells system.

Edited by Silasw on Mar 26th 2019 at 8:32:36 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275783: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:32:29 PM

Or we could release them and let them show up to court, which has worked very well in test programs, and doesn’t result in CAGING FAMILIES IN CAMPS.

[down][awesome] A lifetime of trauma on the kids too.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 26th 2019 at 4:34:30 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#275784: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:32:57 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Some of these parents have been deported without their children - others have to deal with the fact that their children don't recognise them anymore or hate them because they think their parents abandoned them.

Tell me again how that's better than letting their parents take care of them?

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 26th 2019 at 9:33:29 AM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#275785: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:36:04 PM

I'm calling this a shitpost.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275786: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:36:48 PM

It's not trolling. It's just conservative values. These kinds of Sadistic False Dichotomies often sound convincing to people who are not very knowledgeable about the subject matter and/or alternatives. It makes a terrible thing look like the least shitty option, which in turn gets people onboard with it.

It's like when Christians say, "Look, we can either electroshock the gay out of your children, or they can burn in Hell forever. Our torture camps are a mercy in the long run."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 26th 2019 at 2:40:54 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#275787: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:43:42 PM

I'm not advocating for us to put the kids (or their parents) in cages. I'm not. Like I said, if it were up to me, then we wouldn't have nearly anyone in prison for things like this.

I'm stating that the parents are in prison, therefore, if we want to reunite the kids with their parents we put them in prison. Both of the options (away from or with) are both very unhealthy environments and we have to figure out which is worse. I'm not sure how being in prison with their parent's isn't also going to inflict lifetimes of trauma. (Let's not get derailed on prison reform which I think we also need.) There are reasons to think that a full on prison would be worse for them.

Again, since I seem to have to say it every time, I don't think the parents should be in prison in the first place. Or even have to face deportation if they haven't committed any serious felony crimes for that matter.

Edited by Soban on Mar 26th 2019 at 4:45:22 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#275788: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:48:14 PM

But you stated the false dichotomy that it's "in prison with the parents, or in camps separately." You're backpedaling.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#275789: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:49:37 PM

Which, to be fair, is probably the smart thing to do after a comment the original one

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275790: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:54:25 PM

I get that you're saying it's the lesser of two evils.

But when the option "Just don't be evil" is on the table, both evils are still evil.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#275792: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:57:51 PM

One thing currently going against trump's reelection is that many previously apathetic voters have been stirred into action by what has transpired (I should know, i'm one of them).

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#275793: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:58:31 PM

Doesn't feel like my say is worth much at that point, since I'm just going to be agreeing with the others. There is no reason we can't release the kids, reunite them with their parents and just let them go free. This isn't rocket science.

i'm tired, my friend
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#275794: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:07:00 PM

Soban, the setup for the majority of illegal immigrants (prior to Trump) was the much-derided "Catch & Release" program.

Bottom line - CBP would intercept illegal immigrants, get them into the system, then let them go on their way with a court appointment on the books. This had a 90+% (I think 95?) rate of success, which is a much lower cost to the taxpayer (as those immigrants had to pay for themselves in the interim), and far more humane.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#275795: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:07:28 PM

Seth Abramason takes apart the whole summary. Really interesting...one thing I actually missed is that it isn't the summary of the report, it is the summary of the summary of the report. And once you go into the details, they have pulled a fast one on the media, even more so than I thought.

Congress needs to insist on seeing the files, because that is the recommendation Mueller gave.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1110266463506567168

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#275796: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:10:11 PM

GOP congressman quotes Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ to slam Trump’s adversaries as liars

I just noticed that link. So not only is that chucklefuck essentially comparing the Democrats to the Jews in Nazi Germany (the "Big Lie" was coined as part of a antisemitic conspiracy theory), he also calls Hitler a socialist.

I wish we could just force every single one of these idiots to extend German history classes for the next decade or so, until the bloody message sinks in.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 26th 2019 at 10:10:32 AM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#275797: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:13:56 PM

Apparently, the full content of the Mueller report, or what we'll see of it, may be out sooner than we thought: https://www.wsj.com/articles/mueller-report-to-be-public-in-weeks-not-months-barr-says-11553632789?mod=e2tw

As for his odds of being re-elected, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're lower than they were when he ran in 2016. Even if you ignore Russian interference, the 2016 election was a clusterfuck of epic proportions on the part of the Democrats. They pushed for Hillary Clinton to be nominated when it was clear that voters were favoring Bernie Sanders, they refused to campaign in Rust Belt states even though those were important swing states, and they didn't listen to people who wanted change instead of being happy with the way things were. They didn't have a clear, effective goal or slogan.

Had any or all of those factors been avoided—for example, had Sanders been nominated, or had Clinton campaigned more heavily in key swing states— the Democrats could have still squeaked through with a win, Russian interference or no. The election was theirs to lose, and they lost it.

The 2020 election won't be a repeat of the 2016 one. Of course, there's the possibility that the Russian interference will still be there, but the Democrats can now look back on 2016 as an example of what NOT to do. They won't be nominating anyone with the sort of controversy attached to them as Hillary Clinton. They'll find a way to counteract Trump's message with an effective one of their own.

A lot of Democrats (including me, at times) tend to overstate the role Russian interference likely played in getting Trump elected, possibly because they find it more comfortable than admitting that half of America willingly voted for an out-and-out fascist. But the circumstances that led to Trump's election aren't likely to be repeated in 2020. They were the result of pent-up rage over the Obama administration, and over gains that progressives had made over the past eight years. That was why Trump's slogan, "Make America Great Again" resonated so much. But can he make lightning strike twice? I don't think so.

Edited by ElSquibbonator on Mar 26th 2019 at 5:31:28 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#275798: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:22:54 PM

They should all watch the vid by Three Arrows about the issue at least. Honestly, the notion that Hitler was a socialist is extremely insulting, for a number of reasons.

ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#275799: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:34:29 PM

What do you make of my analysis above?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#275800: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:36:15 PM

It's wrong. Clinton had several policies laid out, but the emails things was "juicy" I guess and thus was the thing people paid attention to.

Furthermore, not only did Sanders not make the cut because he didn't have the votes, but other than economy, he really didn't (and doesn't) have much to offer.

i'm tired, my friend

Total posts: 417,856
Top