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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#275726: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:11:05 AM

[up][up][up]His approval rate, (as we have seen back in 2016) with the general public doesn't matter too much as long as he has the support of the electoral college overall. As long as the Midwest, the rich, and certain parts of the south love him it won't matter.

I'd rather be wrong, and I'm still gonna vote for anyone but Trump. But I'm not holding my breath for the good guys to take down the Right Wing this time.

What would be great is if, right after the next election a democrat wins the electoral college is disbanded. So this can be an actual democracy.

Edited by Wildcard on Mar 26th 2019 at 11:12:34 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#275727: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:18:45 AM

His approval rate, (as we have seen back in 2016) with the general public doesn't matter too much as long as he has the support of the electoral college overall. As long as the Midwest, the rich, and certain parts of the south love him it won't matter.

I'd rather be wrong, and I'm still gonna vote for anyone but Trump. But I'm not holding my breath for the good guys to take down the Right Wing this time.

What would be great is if, right after the next election a democrat wins the electoral college is disbanded. So this can be an actual democracy.

Oh my god, this isn't true.

Yes, the Presidential election isn't determined by popular vote and thus approval rating doesn't matter as much as it should. But to say it "doesn't matter too much" is inane nonsense, the electoral college is not some monolithic entity that offers support. It's determined by the vote in keys states and that is absolutely impacted by popularity.

This is counterfactual nonsense, Trump won against Clinton by around ten thousand votes. If you think the Mueller report is going to make that margin of error less close against a Democratic candidate who will almost certainly be stronger then Clinton then you've abandoned all reason. Trump's victory was never assured and it mostly certainly isn't now.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ciyinwanderer Since: Dec, 2018
#275728: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:20:39 AM

Briefly going back to the Mueller Report: what we are seeing is exactly what I expected if the public didn't get the full report right away. The narrative is already being set and will have taken hold before we get all the facts found in the complete report.

Also, to clarify something people brought up: Mueller did have an open mandate. He was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election and any other wrong doing that may come up in the course of that investigation. That's how he was able to go after some of the people he did. When he was first appointed the right was excited about that because they thought it would somehow twist around and lead to Hillary being arrested (not kidding, I remember seeing that argument). As time went on they complained about that aspect more and more.

This signature was thumped to preserve the dignity of the moderators.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#275729: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:32:11 AM

[up][up]Which is what I said. I said that as long as certain key states, (such as the ones in the Midwest, south, etc...) still love him then the electoral college will vote as such. I can see how that was unclear, but that was what I was saying. I just don't have the optimism for those areas to see a better way as you do.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#275730: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:32:14 AM

Briefly going back to the Mueller Report: what we are seeing is exactly what I expected if the public didn't get the full report right away. The narrative is already being set and will have taken hold before we get all the facts found in the complete report.

Also, to clarify something people brought up: Mueller did have an open mandate. He was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election and any other wrong doing that may come up in the course of that investigation. That's how he was able to go after some of the people he did. When he was first appointed the right was excited about that because they thought it would somehow twist around and lead to Hillary being arrested (not kidding, I remember seeing that argument). As time went on they complained about that aspect more and more.

I feel the need to point out that there isn't a single narrative, there's two. The Right-wing narrative in which Trump is absolved of guilt and it's all just fake news and the Left-wing narrative that the report has not yet been released and even if Trump is exonerated it won't make Trump any less awful.

Which narrative a person follows depends on their personal politics and little else.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 26th 2019 at 8:43:04 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#275731: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:34:41 AM

[up]x2 Then it's a good thing that Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida all have Trump polling too low to re-win them (at the time of my writing this), and that we have evidence that Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin are coming back to the Democrats (at least Statewide).

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#275732: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:35:54 AM

[up][up] I mean, sure, except the overwhelmingly more common narrative is, at the very least, that this is good for Trump. Bezos' newspapers are running covers talking about how good this is for Trump for crying out loud.

There are two narratives, one of which is much, much, much, much more popular.

Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 26th 2019 at 11:36:21 AM

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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#275733: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:36:38 AM

Regarding the Midwestern states that Trump barely won...the Dems did very well there last November. Polling and actual elections show that the the tide is turning by all accounts.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#275734: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:44:29 AM

Which is what I said. I said that as long as certain key states, (such as the ones in the Midwest, south, etc...) still love him then the electoral college will vote as such. I can see how that was unclear, but that was what I was saying. I just don't have the optimism for those areas to see a better way as you do.

It's not optimism, it's an acknowledgment of reality. He won by 10,000 votes in a nation of 300 million, to describe those states as "loving him" is fundamentally counterfactual.

I mean, sure, except the overwhelmingly more common narrative is, at the very least, that this is good for Trump. Bezos' newspapers are running covers talking about how good this is for Trump for crying out loud.

There are two narratives, one of which is much, much, much, much more popular.

Amongst the media, for now.

But it will just divide alongst partisan lines, especially as Democrats push for the report to be released.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275735: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:46:58 AM

What matters isn't what narrative the hardcore right and left believe. It's what the center believes.

And that's always an uphill battle because the right has a dedicated propaganda network and the left doesn't, so there's just plain more right-wing narrative in the public media space than there is left-wing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#275736: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:47:39 AM

Pretty sure the Rust Belt states voted for him since he represented change and against Hillary who represented the status quo. Or at least, that's how they perceived it. They voted for Obama before, remember.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#275737: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:48:17 AM

That and the "center" is going to have something of a right-wing bias by default, especially in a country like the US where the overton window has historically been moreso the right anyway.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#275738: Mar 26th 2019 at 8:48:40 AM

Fox News is a blight upon civilization. It seriously cannot be understated just how much damage Murdoch has done to the world.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#275739: Mar 26th 2019 at 9:06:02 AM

[up]It made the world a better place for him, and that's all that counts.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#275740: Mar 26th 2019 at 9:07:17 AM

Him and his heirs, really. The current system benefits people like him, and he wants it to be more like that. If there's anyone who could count as humanity's Big Bad in the present time, it's Murdoch.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Mar 26th 2019 at 4:07:52 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#275741: Mar 26th 2019 at 9:31:45 AM

My mom is your pretty standard centre-right voter (hates Trump) and she completely agreed with me that Fox News' coverage of the Mueller report was ridiculously biased.

They said the investigation costed millions of dollars without mentioning the amount it brought back and plastered "zero collusion indictments" when there were many more for other charges.

Edited by Grafite on Mar 26th 2019 at 9:12:35 AM

Life is unfair...
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#275742: Mar 26th 2019 at 9:45:57 AM

and plastered "zero collusion indictments" when there were many more for other charges.
But those were just technicalities and process crimes!

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#275743: Mar 26th 2019 at 10:02:33 AM

Plus Manafort has been charged with sharing data with Russians, I’m not yet convinced that the report clears Trump of collusion, it appears to clear him of knowing collusion with the Russian government, or at least say that there’s not enough evidence to charge him with that.

That still leaves tons of possibilities. Such as,

  • There being evidence that Trump knowingly worked with the Russian government, just not enough evidence.
  • There being evidence enough to bring charges that Trump coordinated with Russian nationals, but not that he knew the Russians nationals were working on behalf of the Russian government.
  • Trump having willingly benefited from Russian activities and allowed the Russians to coordinate with him, while not coordinating with them.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275744: Mar 26th 2019 at 10:09:30 AM

It doesn’t appear to clear him of anything. Again, we do not have the report, only part of several sentences selectively quoted by Barr.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275745: Mar 26th 2019 at 10:14:47 AM

One of which explicitly states that the report does not exonerate him.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#275746: Mar 26th 2019 at 10:17:56 AM

It is worth noting also that there's a fairly big gap between "not proven guilty" and "proven not guilty".

Leviticus 19:34
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#275747: Mar 26th 2019 at 10:34:38 AM

Senator Mike Udall (D-NM)will not be running in 2020. This represents a not impossible but very unlikely pickup for the GOP, New Mexico isn't purple, but it isn't a safe seat either. The Democrats have a solid pool of nominees due to their total control of House seats and several popular state level figures, so there's an even bigger opportunity to get a youngish Senator in there as well.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-does-udalls-retirement-mean-for-new-mexicos-2020-senate-race/

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#275748: Mar 26th 2019 at 10:44:15 AM

[up]Yeah, I won't say I'm not depressed or annoyed about the end of the Mueller investigation- if nothing else, it pissed off Trump- but it was never going to salvage this country. Right now our priority should be getting as many Democrats into office as possible.

Edited by JBC31187 on Mar 26th 2019 at 10:44:35 AM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#275749: Mar 26th 2019 at 11:22:32 AM

House attempt to override Trump's veto over emergency declaration failed 248-181 with 14 Republicans saying yes.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#275750: Mar 26th 2019 at 11:27:06 AM

How low can the Republicans sink?


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