TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#275676: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:15:45 PM

Trump signed a proclamation formally recognizing Israel's authority over the long-disputed Golan Heights. Earlier in the day, Hamas, the armed group that rules Gaza, fired a rocket that destroyed a house in a village north of Tel Aviv. (New York Times / Reuters)
Let's see how many countries' governments decide to follow suit because they're too gutless to do the right thing rather than toe Uncle Sam's party line. Fucking bastards they would all be.

Why no, I utterly despise realpolitik and sincerely believe that national self-interest should never trump moral principles. Why do you ask?

Mitch Mc Connell will put the Green New Deal to a vote, forcing Democrats on the record to paint them as socialists who are out of touch with American values.
I don't get it. How does McConnell doing this "force" the Democrats to paint themsleves as "socialists" and "un-American"?

Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 25th 2019 at 6:16:43 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#275677: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:28:55 PM

I think the idea is that, since they've been using socialist as a scare word and have been calling the GND socialist (despite nothing in it doing anything to nationalize any industry), that them voting in support of this deal will by default mean they've all decided to go for socialism.

Anyway, people have already been asking the Democrats about that, with varying answers. But on the whole, they're a lot less defensive about the socialism label, because right now that's actually flying pretty well with the democratic base. I think what Republicans are trying to do here is make them seem scary to the more conservative independents and Republican voters.

In any case, they're using socialism in place of communist here, and have been for a while. No one really talks about communism anymore, at least not in American political spheres, but socialism has been taking it's place. The ironic thing is that as long as you don't call the policies socialist, you can sell a socialist policy to a lot of conservatives pretty well.

Edited by AceofSpades on Mar 25th 2019 at 9:30:36 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275678: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:35:30 PM

I’m reading a book on American poverty. Harry Truman pushed for a national healthcare system in the 19-damn-40s and was branded a socialist.

StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#275679: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:55:33 PM

This news didn't really phase me when I first heard it because I did figure Barr was going to cover for Trump. That said, seeing Trevor Noah on the Daily show admit to being wrong actually was disheartening, since now I feel like I'm wrong for thinking otherwise. I still won't be convinced until the report is public though, but again, I don't want to get my hopes to high or get too confident that things will work out the way I want them to.

I do now sort of question if Mueller is so by the book that he's Lawful Stupid for thinking Barr would be honest in his letter. And with all the really suspicious shit that goes on with Trump, you'd think there'd be at least more explanations as to what the deal was. It certainly seems like Russia colluded with everyone except Trump himself, and I guess that means he gets off on a technicality, but having everyone else do the work for him so he's not technically guilty?

Have we just gotten to the point where every layer of government is corrupt to the point that there will always be someone in the way to cover Trump, so that nothing ever gets to him? I realize that the people voting Trump out of office means the country legitimately renouncing him, but if he doesn't get dealt with while he is still president, that basically means he was able to put himself above the law for four years. As an American, that sickens me. I know money and race means that the law isn't always fair, but to see this? I don't think I could even call it the United States anymore.

I've got just a couple more months left before I leave for Singapore. At this point, it almost feels like a relief to get out, but I know I'll always be keeping tabs. This is a big tipping point for the USA, and it's either going to come out stronger, or it's going to die.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#275680: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:59:45 PM

[up][up][up] The thing is, AFAIK many prominent Democrats in Congress have voiced support for GND ever since it was proposed, so Mc Connell thinking that he could use their support against them in the eyes of the general public seems nonsensical. Or am I simply misinformed about Congressional Democrat support for GND?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#275681: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:23:33 PM

The impression I'm getting is it's more about firing up the GOP base than anything else.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275682: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:25:58 PM

I think Mueller knew that he had to turn over his documentation to the Attorney General and that was the end of things.

So he just rounded up as many lieutenants as he could.

Which he did.

It's not like he could do anything else.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 25th 2019 at 9:26:15 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275683: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:28:50 PM

...

...

I mean, he could have looked deeper into Trump’s fishy Russia connections going back to the 1980s, or brought in Don Jr and Kushner and Ivanka for questioning...

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#275684: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:32:19 PM

I'm actually not sure he could. His mandate was to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election. Unless evidence pointed to potential collusion that far back he probably couldn't really investigate down that path even if he wanted, and the impression I'm getting is there wasn't enough to prove Trump knowingly colluded, period.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#275685: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:32:59 PM

This as an investigation into Russian interference in 2016 election, not Trump.

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275686: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:40:35 PM

To use my catch phrase of, "Mind you" there's also the fact that nothing Trump has done can be used against him criminally.

We have Cohen testimony that's pretty damning and plenty of other things to throw at Trump.

Including stealing from children's charities.

The investigations are mostly to show Trump is a scumbag when they touch on him—because no one will push, "this is enough to remove him from office" button.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#275687: Mar 25th 2019 at 10:57:47 PM

I think it's really stupid that you're apparently not allowed to expand the scope of an investigation if you come across unrelated evidence of further crimes that are unrelated to the original focus of said investigation. All crimes should be punished, and restrictions like the one I just described just makes it easier to get away with the comparatively minor stuff that still affected many lives.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#275688: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:08:51 PM

Because that's not something that'd be ripe for abuse

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#275689: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:14:10 PM

Aye, we don't want every prosecution turning into a random fishing expedition that seeks to attach any crime no matter how petty to their target.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#275690: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:17:45 PM

Don't police officers already use "reasonable suspicion" or minor traffic violations as an excuse to strip people's cars and ransack "civil forfeiture" anything they find inside? I could have sworn I'd seen articles about that.

It's been fun.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275691: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:23:26 PM

It's not the case here because Trump is the leader of a nation and thus has immunity to prosecution unless his country removes his immunity to prosecution (i.e. what impeachment is).

Also, he's the guy who is technically above the guy ordering the investigation. And as stated the Attorney General is the person who would have to order a new investigation into new crimes.

Basically, Mueller could only recommend, "This guy is shady as shit and we should investigate him for crimes unrelated to this investigation."

So this is full on Gotham City layers of bullshit.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 25th 2019 at 11:45:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275692: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:24:51 PM

Aye, we don't want every prosecution turning into a random fishing expedition that seeks to attach any crime no matter how petty to their target.

Hypocrisy Nod trope: This is, of course, exactly what happened to investigating Bill Clinton's banking records turned into.

And the Republicans were all for it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#275693: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:43:04 PM

"I didn't find Trump's hand in the cookie jar I was assigned to check." What, exactly, is wrong with Mueller saying that?

He's not Ken Starr.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275694: Mar 25th 2019 at 11:44:30 PM

Its not even necessarily that.

It's just he said the Attorney General had to decide that.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#275695: Mar 26th 2019 at 12:32:01 AM

I just don't get the media. I mean, I kind of get that Fox news and co would be happy about the so called "report", but I don't get why next to nobody, not even the people who should know better, point out that this summary is very questionable and that we still haven't seen the full report. I mean, Rachel Maddows recently did a segment of how you can often use it to your advantage to only leak parts of a report in order to make someone look bad. Well, you can also do the opposite and summarize a report in a way which makes someone look good.

All the summary is saying that nobody "knowingly" helped the Russians which, well, doesn't meant that they didn't do it unknowingly, it just means that they were too stupid and corrupt to realize it.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275696: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:04:23 AM

Everyone wants the actual stuff to be released but Mitch is fucking Smaug so it's hard to figure out a way to get the Arkenstone past him.

Or even a gold cup.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#275698: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:41:19 AM

Because nothing says commitment to free speech like demanding your critics be no-platformed.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#275699: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:45:17 AM

[up][up][up][up]To be honest I think, they think that it wouldn’t be fair play.

Unlike the Republicans, Democrats and Vaguely Democraticly aligned media are not willing to turn it into the endless media circus that Republicans would be like with Benghazi and similar scandals. Not to mention that they simply don’t have the fanatical base who will just keep the conspiracy theories going forever.

It might be best for the Democrats to try to pivot away from this, though that may not be possible considering how much political capital has been sunk into it already.

Edited by Mio on Mar 26th 2019 at 5:45:38 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#275700: Mar 26th 2019 at 2:48:30 AM

I think it has been obvious for quite some time that the right doesn't actually support free speech.

Furthermore, unless they work for Fox News and/or are bought by Sinclair, I doubt any of them are gonna take this seriously.

i'm tired, my friend

Total posts: 417,856
Top