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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#275601: Mar 24th 2019 at 10:17:37 PM

Also, let's not forget, let's NOT forget, that even Barr's summary of the report acknowledges that Russia hacked the DNC, and yet we had Trump stand next to Putin in Helsinki and say, "I asked him, and he says he didn't do it."

He's a useful idiot for Putin even without deliberate conspiracy, and the Republicans were very mad about that Helsinki press conference until everyone forgot about it.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#275602: Mar 24th 2019 at 10:25:22 PM

Any chance we might get the full report eventually? You know, the way congress voted 420-0 to do?

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#275603: Mar 24th 2019 at 10:27:17 PM

Well shit, lets hope 2020 does better.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275604: Mar 24th 2019 at 10:41:05 PM

The problem is that being an idiot, even a useful one, is not a violation of the United States Constitution.

That's pretty much where the Trump-Russia investigation was always going to get hung up. There is a lot of reasonable doubt. Which is not to say that there's reason to believe Trump has done nothing wrong. Or that Trump is fit for Presidency. Trump is a white supremacist rich kid who grew up with a silver spoon and became a mafioso. He's got white collar crimes from here to Kentucky, and he has done horrible things in office just like we all knew he would.

But there exists a possible scenario in which Russia spent 2016 helping him get elected of their own accord because they knew his Presidency would do wonders towards destabilizing the West, and that Trump sat there with his thumb up his ass passively benefitting from those efforts. We've learned a lot over the past two years, but nothing we've learned has ever disproven that scenario beyond reasonable doubt.

Trump obstructed justice to try and kill the case on multiple occasions. Does this mean he colluded? Well, no. He could be hiding things. But the explanation of his actions that we keep getting is that Trump is convinced that he's innocent, and he's stupid enough to think that as President, he can just declare himself innocent and be done with it. And within reasonable doubt, that's believable. It's still obstruction but it doesn't prove collusion.

The Trump Tower meeting was the closest thing to a smoking gun we ever had. And by all accounts, what happened there seems to have been attempted collusion by Russia trying to get an 'in' with Trump, foiled because Don Jr. is an idiot and never caught on. We know a lot more people were in that room than initially reported, but all evidence suggests that nothing ever came of the meeting and everyone left dissatisfied.

We nailed a lot of satellite figures around Trump for a variety of crimes. But do they prove collusion? No, because within reasonable doubt, it's believable that Trump has a lot of friends with criminal ties to Russia because Trump has personal connections with both Russia and crime.

Trump has secret meetings with Putin. And that's sketchy as f*ck. But unless you can obtain the content of those meetings in some way, it's not prosecutable. It is not a violation of the United States Constitution for the President to speak privately with other world leaders. Even if he is under suspicion for colluding with said leader. Such meetings are inadvisable due to the optics. But they are not a crime.

And when you get right down to it, that's the problem with Trump. A lot of the shit he does feels like it should be a crime because it's so, so awful. But a lot of it does fall within his purview as the democratically-elected President of the United States. It's horrible, but it's legally horrible.

On multiple occasions over the past two years, Mueller and his team have asked, begged, and pleaded the American public to not make this "The Trump Investigation". It is, and always was, the investigation into 2016 election meddling by Russia. Trump was a person of interest. But the mission statement was never, "Find the evidence that takes Trump down."

But the public and the press wouldn't hear it, and it became "The Trump Investigation" all the same. And now we're at the end of the road. We've nailed a lot of guilty men. Got some solid convictions. Shone a light on the extent of Russia's influence. And none of that is going to get reported as a win because "The Trump Investigation" didn't get "its man".

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#275605: Mar 24th 2019 at 10:42:36 PM

[awesome]

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275606: Mar 24th 2019 at 11:59:10 PM

https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article222235805.html

Governor Matt Bevin (i.e. the other major asshole in KY's government) is removing 100K of people off Medicaid. Courts are challenging it because it's another move to Kill the Poor. My wife was kicked off of it due to, well, being married to me despite her many many insurance needs and conditions.

Bevin says that if he doesn't get his 100K kicked off then he'll remove all medicaid for 400K.

You know where he learned that move.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#275607: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:44:14 AM

What I don't get is how they couldn't decide if Trump obstructed justice or not. Yes he did. He did it in front of everyone and then BRAGGED about it on TV.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275608: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:55:03 AM

I think literally he was so ineffective at it they can't make it fact.

Or...wait....no.

No, it's the fact the Attorney General is his puppet.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:55:47 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#275609: Mar 25th 2019 at 1:21:48 AM

In a lot of other places, "too stupid to notice everyone around him was colluding with Russia" would be enough to disqualify him from presidency...

But in the US, not only did he get that far but he stayed there.

Edit: In the end, Trump was never made to testify before congress, was he? That's how he managed to dodge incriminating himself...

Edited by Medinoc on Mar 25th 2019 at 9:24:11 AM

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#275610: Mar 25th 2019 at 1:42:30 AM

I am waiting for that to be in the written report.

"After almost two years of intense investigation, countless subpoenas and thousands of documents, it is my professional opinion as an investigator that Donald Trump was and is too incompetent to collude with Russia"

Which in itself would be hilarious as you know Trump would try and refute that claim and thus provide the smoking gun we've been looking for.

Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#275611: Mar 25th 2019 at 2:35:04 AM

The thing is, since we can't trust anything Barr says in that letter, then until we do get the full report, and Barr and/or Mueller testifies before the House committees, we can't really know what Mueller did or didn't find, how he conducted the investigation, what he found that suggested crimes but wouldn't hold up in court, what he found he'd like to have indicted on but couldn't due to the DOJ regulations, and so on.

Nadler, Pelosi, and Schumer are all calling for the full report, but even if they subpoena it (and Barr and/or Mueller), I'm not sure how they could get the needed info. Could they hold Barr in contempt if he refuses? Would it have to go to court, and thus end up at the Supreme Court? If so, this would probably all come down to Roberts.

Edited by Ingonyama on Mar 25th 2019 at 2:36:20 AM

Imca (Veteran)
#275612: Mar 25th 2019 at 2:52:04 AM

It started when the US took over the industry and online became popular in Gen 7. When Japan were in charge in Gens 3 through 6 and we didn't have online/online gaming was in it's infancy, we didn't have this shit.

You know we were the ones that really came up with the "loot box" right? Gatchapon was translated to games.... And the rolls are so much worse odds at worse prices then the US, less then 1% odds at 200-500 yen a pull, trending twords the 500, which is about $5 dollars a roll.

Its a capitalism problem, not a US Game Industy problem, they just saw a profitable business model and stole it. Toned it down in the process too, because the US market would never tollerate it as it was, and enforcment would have happened sooner.

Speaking of, how does that work from where it is at any way? Since that is definitely on the topic of US politics in particular, I remember some politicians calling to do something, but how does it go from there?

Edited by Imca on Mar 25th 2019 at 2:54:45 AM

Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#275613: Mar 25th 2019 at 4:58:43 AM

[up] Not to mention the idea that we "didn't have online gaming" back then is plain ludicrous considering Counter-Strike, Dot A, Wo W and others.

In the context of US politics, I remember some suggested legislation at the state level against loot boxes, though there haven't been much news on that since. I'd rather politicians address work conditions in the game industry instead.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#275614: Mar 25th 2019 at 5:12:44 AM

Considering most politicians are 50+, don't get your hopes up.

i'm tired, my friend
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#275615: Mar 25th 2019 at 7:21:47 AM

>Tobias Post

[awesome]

>Video Game Regulation

I'd expect not to see any until we get another bubble burst, and probably not under this President. As Physical Stamina pointed out, most politicians are past the target demographic for these games, and those that are have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#275616: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:02:23 AM

And lets be honest, loot boxes are far from the biggest problem plaguing the video game industry at the moment.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#275617: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:05:02 AM

Giving another [awesome] to Tobias for that post.

Trump was always a symptom rather than the main problem, and taking him down was never the ultimate answer. Hyping up the Muller investigation as the cure-all was a foolish and risky narrative to run. People got riled up with all the Nixon and Watergate parallels. There was only one place where Trump was going to be defeated, and that was in the next election.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#275618: Mar 25th 2019 at 8:59:48 AM

The collusion portion of the investigation is wrapped up, but there's still more stuff to look in to, correct? That's sort of my understanding.

Also is this a case of "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"?

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275619: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:10:59 AM

No, it’s “don’t trust the word of a Trump flunky who badmouthed the investigation last year while kissing ass for an appointment, then got appointed Attorney General despite (because of) years of being a partisan hack, and then wrote a selective 4 page letter that barely quoted the report.”

We can’t accurately comment on the report because we don’t have it.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:15:49 PM

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#275620: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:46:11 AM

That was my other, more cynical (and therefore more likely) interpretation.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#275621: Mar 25th 2019 at 10:21:30 AM

But the public and the press wouldn't hear it, and it became "The Trump Investigation" all the same.
To be fair here, even though we all know the Mueller investigation's goal was merely about seeing the level of Russian interference in the election, it was rather hard not to see the Muller investigation's ultimate goal as Trump colluding with Russia, when you had the president literally every day screaming "THERE WAS NO COLLUSION!!!". I doubt there would've been as many jumping to that conclusion in their minds if he had just kept his mouth shut from the get-go, or said "Go ahead, investigate me, I have nothing to hide."

Edited by speedyboris on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:23:45 PM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#275622: Mar 25th 2019 at 10:21:37 AM

Meanwhile, there's still a lot of state level stuff going on at SDNY.

How many of the people prosecuted were prosecuted at the state level as opposed to the federal level?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275623: Mar 25th 2019 at 10:33:08 AM

To be fair here, even though we all know the Mueller investigation's goal was merely about seeing the level of Russian interference in the election, it was rather hard not to see the Muller investigation's ultimate goal as Trump colluding with Russia, when you had the president literally every day screaming "THERE WAS NO COLLUSION!!!". I doubt there would've been as many jumping to that conclusion in their minds if he had just kept his mouth shut from the get-go, or said "Go ahead, investigate me, I have nothing to hide."

The problem is that the person screaming that is a deranged egomaniac. Again, we encounter the problem of reasonable doubt. Is Trump the kind of person who would throw a hissy fit about being accused of a crime he did not commit? Or would he remain cool and collected, secure in his innocence, over a black mark on his public persona?

Two years in, I think Trump's status as a pissy man-baby who overreacts at the slightest provocation and then abruptly pretends it never happened as soon as someone says he has nice hair has been well-documented. And that doesn't reflect well on the idea that his tantrums are proof of collusion.

Again, that doesn't mean he did not collude. But within reasonable doubt, a person could look at the situation and go, "Trump threw a fit and embarrassed himself for no good reason. That doesn't mean he's hiding something, it means it's a Tuesday." It is plausible that he spent the last two years raging at the investigation because he thought it made him look bad or weak or stupid, not because he was afraid of what it would find.

And that plausibility is a poison pill for the ability to use his reaction to make a case. Trump is so stupid and evil that it's hard to prove that a given point was him specifically conspiring with Russia, as opposed to him being generically stupid and evil.

Now, in a fair world, him being that stupid and evil would be a compelling argument to keep him from being elected in the first place or to convince both houses of Congress, regardless of party, to impeach him immediately. But unfortunately, much of the Republican party is equally evil and less stupid, so keeping him in office works in their favor.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 25th 2019 at 11:34:28 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#275624: Mar 25th 2019 at 10:34:07 AM

The SNDY is what we should all keep our eyes on. The charges at that level are...less political and more likely to advance.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#275625: Mar 25th 2019 at 10:36:11 AM

[up]Possibly. Remember how they got Al Capone.


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