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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#275401: Mar 23rd 2019 at 1:02:01 PM

I'm from another universe where its called Marco logo

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#275403: Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:40:52 PM

Did Half-Life 3 come out in either of the universes you come from?

I suppose we should just learn to appreciate the silence from Trump's twitter account while it lasts. I'm going to assume that the report won't be released on a weekend, so there will probably be no actual news about it until 12 PM Monday at the earliest.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#275404: Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:44:47 PM

Imagine if he announced his resignation on twitter and the reaction after

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#275405: Mar 23rd 2019 at 4:25:56 PM

Let's be honest if he did resign would it be on any media but Twitter?

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#275407: Mar 23rd 2019 at 6:21:40 PM

It really is far too difficult to get rid of a sitting president. That's why a number of Democrats are saying there's no point in bothering with impeachment—it doesn't matter if you prove he broke the law, unless most of the Republics are willing to jump ship, Trump won't get removed.

It should still be done, though. It can help shine a light on the hypocrisy even more than it already is.

Oh, no. No, it shouldn't. Not unless we have reason to believe the Senate will vote to remove him.

Pelosi's right that fighting a losing battle on this isn't worth doing. If we had by some miracle won the Senate in 2018, then it'd be a different story. But as things stand, impeachment is pretty much off the table.

Do you know what's worse than never impeaching Trump? Carrying out impeachment proceedings against him, only for Trump to formally and decisively be exonerated of all accusations against him before the United States Congress. In a heavily publicized event that lasts months and ends in the headline, "TRUMP BEATS WITCH HUNT".

No. We don't have the votes to remove him in the Senate, and that means we absolutely should not try and push that angle in the House.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#275408: Mar 23rd 2019 at 6:50:01 PM

[up][awesome]

As much as we want to give Trump the boot, doing it now is a gamble. And like most gambles, the Casino has the advantage.

Right now, the best we can do is make sure a Democrat (that isn't Gabbard) wins the office in 2020.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Mar 23rd 2019 at 6:50:39 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#275409: Mar 23rd 2019 at 6:53:56 PM

Then again, considering who's running the casino...

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:54:02 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#275410: Mar 23rd 2019 at 7:49:36 PM

Speaking of candidates, Fox News was flat out lying about Gillibrand's policy proposal concerning social security.

What Fox said: "Gillibrand wants to steal grandma's social security and give it to Mexicans!"

What Gillibrand said: "We need comprehensive immigration reform. If you are in this country now, you must have the right to pay into Social Security, to pay your taxes, to pay into the local school system, and to have a pathway to citizenship."

Note that many illegal immigrants already pay into social security without taking anything in return, so that's already a net plus. Gillibrand wants to have all of them paying into it in as part of her citizenship plan since the US actually needs more immigrants to maintain the Social Security fund.

Also, who in their right mind believes Republicans care about grandma's social security?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275411: Mar 23rd 2019 at 8:18:33 PM

I love when they had a town hall and one Republican Senator tried the "Death Panels" meme only to get booed out of it by his own voters.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#275412: Mar 23rd 2019 at 8:33:11 PM

Do you know what's worse than never impeaching Trump? Carrying out impeachment proceedings against him, only for Trump to formally and decisively be exonerated of all accusations against him before the United States Congress. In a heavily publicized event that lasts months and ends in the headline, "TRUMP BEATS WITCH HUNT".

Thank you for reminding me of the tactical implications. I had been thinking that having his crimes explicitly enumerated and then having the Republicans ignore them would make them look terrible, but that's not where we're at right now.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#275413: Mar 23rd 2019 at 8:46:08 PM

Thank you for reminding me of the tactical implications. I had been thinking that having his crimes explicitly enumerated and then having the Republicans ignore them would make them look terrible, but that's not where we're at right now.

There is an alternative and one that Democrats have supported since they were elected.

Investigations, and lots of them.

They'll continue to investigate Trump and his administration until the general election, airing his dirty laundry without the possibility of massive blowback. Essentially the benefits of attempting impeachment without the costs.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#275415: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:13:17 PM

That does not count.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275416: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:17:23 PM

Hunt Down the Freeman is surprisingly pro-fascist for a pro-science, pro-freedom series.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275417: Mar 24th 2019 at 12:11:47 AM

Fuck “tactics.” This isn’t a game. The House has more than enough to impeach him, from Jared and Ivanka’s security clearance to the blatant emoluments clause violations to the CHILDREN IN CAMPS to a million other things.

It does not matter whether it will succeed; what matters is refusing to cower or abdicate one’s duty just because the Republican Senators have abdicated theirs.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 24th 2019 at 3:12:47 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275418: Mar 24th 2019 at 12:13:49 AM

I tend to agree.

Its a political statement to impeach him.

Its a political statement to NOT impeach him with so many crimes.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#275419: Mar 24th 2019 at 12:19:35 AM

I'd rather not burn our political capital for years for something we know will fail.

We have too much work to do to just go fall on our sword so we can feel satisfied about trying and failing to get the bad guy

Oh really when?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#275420: Mar 24th 2019 at 12:23:11 AM

Yeah, I can't agree with "it doesn't matter whether it succeeds or not" in this case. If attempting and failing will just make things harder down the line, I don't see how the moral high of that is worth it.

Imca (Veteran)
#275421: Mar 24th 2019 at 12:26:06 AM

Not to mention attempting and failing poses a very real risk of costing the 2020 election.

"TRUMP BEATS WITCH HUNT" is exactly how the news media will spin it, and that will basically tank democrat chances for years, writing the republican platform for them.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#275422: Mar 24th 2019 at 12:28:41 AM

It does not matter whether it will succeed; what matters is refusing to cower or abdicate one’s duty just because the Republican Senators have abdicated theirs.

No that's dumb. It's one thing to say "Screw the consequences, I'm doing what's right" if it doesn't affect anyone but yourself, but this will determine the fate of the US, and, less directly, the rest of the world. The moral high ground is not worth that much

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#275423: Mar 24th 2019 at 1:27:37 AM

This reminds me of people who criticise Chamberlin for making a peace deal with Hitler rather than go to war with him, who ignore that had Britain gone to war at that point in time they would have lost due to their armies not being strong enough to fight the Nazis at that point in time (as advised by Chamberlin's own military), and they also ignore that when Chamberlin went back home he started building up Britain's forces so that when war did break out they were in a better position to fight it. To them it doesn't matter that they would have lost and as a result the Nazis would have a better chance of remaining undefeated, it's more important to fight every battle than to win the war.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275424: Mar 24th 2019 at 3:18:34 AM

Except by refusing to act for justice instead of politics, a lot of political capital is burned. It's hard to take the Democrats seriously if they look the other way for crimes and treason.

And this is exactly what is being done.

The problem is that the argument that it burns political capital better spent elsewhere is that it ignores just how much credibility is burned by NOT acting. Which is also a choice and a very loud one.

"Trump Witch Hunt" is not a singular choice as its reverse is, "Democrats don't care about the law as long as its politically inconvenient to enforce it."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 24th 2019 at 3:21:08 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#275425: Mar 24th 2019 at 3:27:38 AM

I think we are all aware that the Scum of the United States will never agree towards an impeachment process. And because of that we'll be more forgiving to Democrats for not even trying.

Besides, most of the Democratic leadership has been in the saddle over the Obama years, they know that moral high grounds do not work. So you won't convince them by appealing to their moral standards.

There is also the question about impeachable offences. The concentration camps? I am sure we'll see a lot of blame shifting about that. Security clearances? I am not actually certain that's a crime at all. Emoluments? There are court cases about just that going and while the plaintiffs have good chances they are not slam dunk (partly due to confusion about what "emoluments" means).

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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