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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275376: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:17:22 AM

Mueller is human, and more importantly, he's a man.

Two categories I'm growing increasingly distrustful of.

We'll see.

Half of the population being untrustworthy will make a lonely life. You should change your opinion.

Beat

TRUST NO ONE.

[X-Files theme plays]

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275377: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:37:23 AM

Re: Mueller

For me, I believe that it will continue to undermine any legitimacy of Trump and while I fully expect the cowards of Republican leadership to continue supporting Trump, I think it will have a long term effect on making sure he's exposed as a traitor. Manafort and Stone are both doomed and both fixed the 2000 election so this is a Karma Houdini Warranty for both of them.

But I knew Mueller's investigation wouldn't bring down Trump as long as he was President.

It might result in Trump's arrest after he leaves office, though.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#275378: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:45:31 AM

It really is far too difficult to get rid of a sitting president. That's why a number of Democrats are saying there's no point in bothering with impeachment—it doesn't matter if you prove he broke the law, unless most of the Republics are willing to jump ship, Trump won't get removed.

It should still be done, though. It can help shine a light on the hypocrisy even more than it already is.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#275379: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:54:12 AM

Trump won't get arrested,but those around him will drop like flies,I think the only way he could wind up in prison is if he willing handed himself over and wavered his presidential immunity,and that's not about to happen,he's the president and is therefore untouchable,but those not called President Trump will find themselves subjected to the law

It's unfair but he's the president

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#275380: Mar 23rd 2019 at 10:46:21 AM

@Charles: I wish I shared your optimism, but this is starting to look a lot more like Iran-Contra than Watergate. That being said, it really depends on what's in the report; as much as people liked to fantasize about Trump himself being indicted, that was never going to happen since prior legal scholarship leans towards the POTUS not being indictable; impeachment is supposed to be the recourse for criminal wrongdoing by the President, but for better or worse the bar for removal is almost impossibly high. At most we'll get a recommendation that congress impeach Trump, and even that's unlikely.


@Euodiachloris: Most of the indicted in this investigation were Russian nationals who will never see the inside of a US court, when it comes to people actually subject to US extradition treaties there's not anything spectacular.

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#275381: Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:22:16 AM

Trump won't get arrested. Mueller is a centrist Republican who has advocated for torture, he's not some nonpartisan hero who is gonna do what's right.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#275382: Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:24:04 AM

On the report, I don't think we're going to see anything particularly interesting. We might see some more reshuffling of the cabinet, but putting all your hopes on this one investigation (which an unfortunate amount of people online seem to have) is rather much like putting all of ones eggs in a single basket. And frankly, unless he really did find a silver bullet he's almost certainly not going to dig up anything I'd find more morally repugnant than what we already know about Trump.


Anyway, hate to broach the Chelsea Manning discussion again. But...

CNN is reporting that Chelsea Manning has been in solitary confinement 22 hours a day since she got to prison, and it is now having an adverse effect on her health.

(sigh)

Edited by AzurePaladin on Mar 23rd 2019 at 2:34:16 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#275383: Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:24:21 AM

[up][up][awesome] yup. sad

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 23rd 2019 at 2:24:36 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#275384: Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:26:56 AM

I'm not really one for hero-worship either, but I can't help but notice a lot of you making some pretty blanket assumptions that appear to based off of nothing, except maybe a skewed perception of what was even supposed to be going on in the first place.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#275385: Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:37:43 AM

[up][up][up][up] I'm pretty sure that's not actually true.

From The Other Wiki:

As director, Mueller also barred FBI personnel from participating in enhanced interrogations with the CIA. At a dinner, Mueller defended an attorney (Thomas Wilner) who had been attacked for his role in defending Kuwaiti detainees. Mueller stood up, raised his glass, and said, "I toast Tom Wilner. He's doing what an American should."

However, the White House pushed back, encouraging more vigorous methods of pursuing and interrogating terror suspects. When Bush confronted Mueller to ask him to round up more terrorists in the U.S., Mueller responded, saying, "If they [suspects] don't commit a crime, it would be difficult to identify and isolate" them. Vice President Dick Cheney objected, by saying, "That's just not good enough. We're hearing this too much from the FBI.

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 23rd 2019 at 2:39:33 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275386: Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:40:53 AM

Trump won't get arrested. Mueller is a centrist Republican who has advocated for torture, he's not some nonpartisan hero who is gonna do what's right.

Thankfully, politics doesn't seem to be the primary motivation for everyone in the world and he's distinct simply by the fact he continued the investigation repeatedly after being told to shelve it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#275387: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:06:00 PM

[up] And again, It's also not true that he advocated for use of Torture tactics. During his tenure as FBI Director, he explicitly forbid FBI agents from participating in it.

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:21:39 PM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#275388: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:07:58 PM

In the face of executive pressure.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#275389: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:08:59 PM

From what I've gathered thus far, it seems that while we may not be able to count on Mueller to do the right thing, whatever we think that might be, we can count on him to do the lawful thing.

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 23rd 2019 at 1:09:16 PM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#275390: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:11:40 PM

TL;DR, instead of moping over not getting the Hollywood happy ending, we should instead take whatever we can get here.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275391: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:12:32 PM

My understanding of Mueller is neither worshipful or necessarily 100% approving but all indications are that he's a cop first, foremost, and last. He's continuing this not because he loves Democratic ideals or progressiveness but because he believes Trump and company are criminals.

A reminder, again, not everything falls into partisan politics outside of politicians.

It's an interesting contrast to Comey. Which I think will be a fascinating pair to contrast in the future.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:13:36 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#275392: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:13:16 PM

I never had any real expectations for the Mueller investigation. It didn't have anything to do with the man himself, just that it was never going to be easy to get rid of Trump and that hoping that anything would be done even if he found something really incriminating seemed a tad too optimistic to me.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#275393: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:17:03 PM

Trump won't get arrested. Mueller is a centrist Republican who has advocated for torture, he's not some nonpartisan hero who is gonna do what's right.

What you personally consider to be right is not the same thing as what is legal, we do not have access to the report. To assume that Mueller could take action against Trump is unproven and obviously biased.

Mueller has an excellent record as a civil servant, this kind of unfounded character assassination is more offensive to me than the insipid worship.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#275394: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:30:55 PM

[up] Or in Trope Speak, I think he could be categorized as somewhere between Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral.

[down] It's more of a form of shorthand, since people obviously don't fit into neat little character alignment boxes.

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:44:07 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#275395: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:32:15 PM

Let's not try to apply character aligments to real life people, please?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#275396: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:35:28 PM

he's lawful neutral anyway

edit:I saw talk on reddit that Trump hadn't tweeted in awhile and there was speculation as to why that was,most people felt it was because he was Marco logo,might mean something is up if the Muller report is about to be released..

Edited by Ultimatum on Mar 23rd 2019 at 7:40:04 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#275397: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:55:21 PM

He's probably just waiting to see if he can keep screaming witch hunt if the report is bad or scream about total vindication if its good for him.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#275398: Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:57:25 PM

Does Trump usually tweet when he's at Mar-a-Logo?

Edited by kkhohoho on Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:04:45 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#275400: Mar 23rd 2019 at 1:01:47 PM

Better ask his brothel madame masseuse.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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