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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#274876: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:52:32 PM

[up] yeah. Apparently, he has actually has delt with several Narcissists in his life, including his former wife.

And usually, he’s spot on.

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 23rd 2019 at 11:26:24 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#274877: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:52:53 PM

I don't think anyone who's seriously looked at the evidence doubts that Trump has a mental disorder. However, it would be unethical for an actual doctor to attempt to diagnose him via observation without taking him on as a patient, and unethical to disclose his mental condition if Trump were a patient, without consent. (The fact that he's President might create a "public interest" exception.)

You and I can speculate all we want and there's no ethical consideration, since we aren't doctors. That doesn't make it appropriate, though.

[up] As this individual has a great deal of lifetime experience with NPD, and he is not diagnosing Trump so much as comparing his observed behavior with the predictions made by the description of that disorder, I don't see any real problem.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:55:06 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#274878: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:54:11 PM

[up] Like that guy on Breitbart who tried to diagnose Hillary Clinton work done kind of illness after she collapsed en route to an event?

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#274879: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:55:57 PM

This doesn't surprise me, but it's still so terrible I feel it deserves mention.

Trump says he never got a "thank you" for McCain's funeral

Speaking in front of a crowd at a tank plant in Lima, Ohio, the president continued the attacks on Mc Cain that he began over the weekend. Trump said he was responsible for authorizing the state funeral services for Mc Cain, who died of cancer in August, but got no gratitude.

“I gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted – which, as president, I had to approve,” Trump said. “I don't care about this, but I didn't get a thank you. That is OK. We sent him on the way, but I wasn’t a fan of John Mc Cain.”

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#274880: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:56:00 PM

It also can be shitty for people with the diagnosis. Like, think of it this way, going "oh trump is clearly a bad person because of the trait you share with him!"

And yeah, mental stuff can definitely be a part of it, and to say it's not would be wildly incorrect, but the way we talk about mental illness is so sensationalized it's hard even for an average person to talk about it in a nuanced way unless they've been given extensive education. And then then it can be a toss up depending on where they got the education from.

Basically it's a difficult issue that most modern conversations are not equipped to discuss, because we've spent decades molding those illnesses to be the boogeymen in your closets.

Read my stories!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#274881: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:05:25 PM

I think it's important, when armchair diagnosing Trump, to clarify that he is a narcissist as well as the terrible person. There are narcissists who aren't terrible people, but Trump is a terrible person and he also seems to be a narcissist.

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#274882: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:16:34 PM

My suggestion for Confederate statues: take the absolutely, sinfully, butt-ugliest ones you can find, and put them in a museum as a display of the white supremacisy backlash to American civil rights, but atrange the display so that rather than looking up at the staties, the patrons are on eye-levrl or even looking down on them, so their true hideousness and terrible quality is plainly visible.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#274883: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:24:35 PM

I honestly don't understand the argument that "they have no historical value because they aren't that old." Age isn't what gives things historical value. History does. And the statues are clearly part of the history of the Civil Rights movement (in the negative sense), which is definitely historical.

Frankly, if old artifacts have value, it's only because of the incredible fortune that allowed them to survive so long. If the people back then had decided that they were worthless and destroyed them (as they did with almost everything, frankly) then we would never have any historical artifacts in the first place! If we're stuck in the mindset that "nothing we're doing right now has historical value" then people in the year 2500 will never remember any of this, because we never left anything for them. Even the plunger in your bathroom has historical value to an archaeologist 2000 years down the line.

Edited by Clarste on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:25:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#274884: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:43:26 PM

And it's entirely reasonable to preserve a sampling of them for history. But not all of them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#274885: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:46:13 PM

How many monuments are there? Like a thousand? Two thousand? Really no reason to preserve most of those, even for historical purposes.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#274886: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:52:04 PM

In 2017 the Southern Poverty Law Center identified 1,503 Confederate place names and other symbols in public spaces in the U.S. Those weren't just statues, though. But I suspect that there are a few hundred of them, and those are just the ones in public spaces. There are als some on private land.

Here is my source:

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/18/how-many-confederate-monuments-symbols-and-markers-exist-in-u-s-public-spaces/

Not sure how trustworthy it is, but it looks legit and paints a pretty depressing picture.

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:53:20 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#274887: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:58:34 PM

Former Trump staffer Hope Hicks with cooperate with House Democrats and turn over documents related to his actions during and after the campaign.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/politics/hope-hicks-house-democratic-investigation/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#274888: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:59:20 PM

The OC Register is a valid, albeit surprising source. It's a regional Southern California paper. Not sure how that shot up in Google search.[lol]

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#274889: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:00:47 PM

[up] I actually don't use google if I can avoid it. I binged it. And I am NOT ashamed of it.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#274890: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:03:56 PM

Hey, I'm not complaining. That's my old summoning ground.

@Hope Hicks: Steve Bannon is also turning over thousands of documents to the committee.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#274891: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:07:57 PM

RE Trump, narcissism and armchair diagnosis: I am honestly annoyed at this attitude that psychiatry has a monopoly on the use of the word "narcissism", when said term predated the establishment of the eponymous mental disorder (first described in 1925, first actually named as we know it in 1968). It should be perfectly fine to use the non-psychiatric definition of the word to describe the overt behavior (which may or may not be the result of a mental disorder), while acknowledging that NPD should only be used when individual instances of narcissistic behavior are conclusively identified to have a psychologically pathological cause.

Take note that Wikipedia has separate articles for the disorder and narcissism as a trait.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#274892: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:13:55 PM

How many monuments are there? Like a thousand? Two thousand? Really no reason to preserve most of those, even for historical purposes.

I mean, sure. I have no problem with that. I was only objecting the specific "they have no historical value at all" argument being made.

Like, you don't get to decide that.

Edited by Clarste on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:14:16 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#274893: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:16:42 PM

> Like, you don't get to decide that.

Then who does?

I mean,aside from people who erected the statues in the first place

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#274894: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:24:23 PM

The people in a thousand years will decide.

In the long term, historians would want to preserve literally everything, to have a perfect snapshot of life in every single era. Imagine if we had a perfectly preserved ancient Babylon, for example.

This is not especially practical, so obviously things will get torn down and replaced as time passes. But the value to us now has nothing whatsoever to do with what value they'll have in the future. Maybe they'll be more interested in our plumbing than what we consider great works of art. Who knows? You can't argue that "this should be destroyed because history will not value it" when you can't know that.

Edited by Clarste on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:26:11 AM

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#274895: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:25:39 PM

History is one thing, but peopel have a right to remove propaganda from their neighborhood. Especially if the propaganda is from a bygone era we don't endorse more.

History is one thing but people living in the now still have a right to decide how they live.

Read my stories!
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#274896: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:29:23 PM

Again, I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be torn down. Heck, burn down the Library of Alexandria to feed your children, that's your call.

Just don't say "eh, history won't care about these things" because that's not how it works.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#274897: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:36:40 PM

We value art and artefacts from the past because in many cases they are the only thing we have to give us clues about the people who made them...

But that's because the people of that time didn't extensively write things down the way we do today.

It's entirely possible that being a historian a thousand years from now is less a job of trying to find every little possible scrap of information that can be found and more a job of throwing away metric fucktons of information in order to only be left with the reliable stuff.

And in that case, a Confederate monument is going to be the first thing on the trash heap if the historians are doing their job properly... So we may as well save them the trouble and do it ourselves.

Angry gets shit done.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#274898: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:38:09 PM

[up][tup]

Well said.

Future Historians lose absolutely nothing from us systematically destroying every Confederate statue. Sadly such a thing probably won't be possible for the foreseeable future but we can dream!

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:52:45 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#274899: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:50:49 PM

Also, even if you put them in a museum, there would still be the cost to preserve them. I mean aside from the fact that Po C are forced to walk by them every day, they are also forced to pay for their upkeep through their taxes.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#274900: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:55:24 PM

[up][up][up]You're assuming that every little thing we write down today will actually be preserved, as opposed to lost forever when the company owning the server decides to shut it down. I mean, none of this stuff is "historical" right? Which is exactly what I'm saying.

People in the past wrote plenty of stuff down. They just didn't keep most of it because they weren't thinking of future historians, they were thinking of their own lives. The vast majority of everything humanity has ever made was destroyed by people who didn't think it was important.

The idea that we're "different" now, that we're "special" and "enlightened" strikes me as one of the most dangerous mindsets that it's possible to have.

Edited by Clarste on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:57:08 AM


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