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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#274801: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:35:08 AM

“And over here kids are the dozens of statues venerating white supremacy, most of which look very heroic and noble, but actually these are evil.”

Screw that. Demolish them or melt them down. Maybe have a small display with photos of notable awful statues.

[down] No. Don’t waste museum space. And god knows white supremacists would love having a wing of “wrongfully” removed statues.

[down][down] No. transporting and maintaining and displaying the statues is an abhorrent waste of resources. Take photos and destroy them.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 20th 2019 at 11:38:20 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#274802: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:35:22 AM

I agree with all of the above. We can discuss history without glorifying it. Museums are perfect for that.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#274803: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:36:37 AM

Well, point out that the Confederate Statues were erected as a direct response to black people getting closer and closer to equality. A lot date back to the sixties for example (I wonder what was happening then?) and so it would serve as an effective reminder to future generations of how Confederate symbolism have very racist meanings and usages.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#274804: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:41:54 AM

Museums is exactly where they should be, if anywhere.

The thing is that musems don't actually ''want'' these statues either.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:43:59 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#274805: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:44:08 AM

A lot of them are cheaply produced garbage erected as a kind of protest against civil rights, and have very little historical value. I guess we could preserve particularly notable examples and junk the rest.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#274806: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:44:27 AM

We don't need to keep all of them, but let's not throw four in a storage container, the rest in the paving machine, and pretend racism is solved forever because we got rid of the objects the racists made.

If any of them have particular historical value, by which I mean in what they say about the society that made them, then I say keep those and put them in museums to discuss the society that made them. The rest of them, especially the ones that were mass-produced, can probably be destroyed with little issue.

Edited by RedSavant on Mar 20th 2019 at 11:45:08 AM

It's been fun.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#274807: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:45:26 AM

Well, if it's not public spaces, and it's not museums, I guess we have to melt them all down. o no

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#274808: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:46:35 AM

[up]

You could probably find a good use for all the scrap metal.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:46:44 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#274809: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:50:20 AM

Yeah, replace all the Confederate generals with Union generals. Just to rub their noses in it.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#274810: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:52:00 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]Some of them definitely wouldn’t want them, but that aside there definitely isn’t enough museum space to house all of these statutes. A large number of them will simply need to be destroyed, and frankly most of them should be considering that the bulk of them were mass produced by the daughters of the confederacy to intimidate minorities, thus making their artistic or historic value dubious at best.

Another thing that I’m afraid would happen is that a bunch of those statues get bought up by Daughters of the Confederacy type organizations in order to be placed in “Civil War” museums that ultimately serve the same purpose of glorifying the confederacy and intimidating minorities.

[nja]

Edited by Mio on Mar 20th 2019 at 11:52:45 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#274811: Mar 20th 2019 at 8:52:17 AM

A German YouTuber named Three Arrows actually did a video about Confederate statues:

He goes over why these statues are not actually representing history - so removing them doesn't erase anything - and why putting them in museums isn't really worthwhile either.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:52:30 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#274812: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:00:49 AM

Auction them off and have the proceeds to towards actual museums about American history.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#274813: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:02:27 AM

Confederate statues don't belong in parks. They don't belong in museums. They don't belong anywhere but the trashbin of history.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#274814: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:03:11 AM

He goes over why these statues are not actually representing history - so removing them doesn't erase anything - and why putting them in museums isn't really worthwhile either.

The statues are history.

Trying to erase a denial and whitewashing of history is stupid. It's the exact same bullshit that the statues represent.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#274815: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:05:32 AM

“And over here kids are the dozens of statues venerating white supremacy, most of which look very heroic and noble, but actually these are evil.”

Screw that. Demolish them or melt them down. Maybe have a small display with photos of notable awful statues.

I was initially for preserving these statues in museums, but after hearing more of the arguments I would have to agree that this is the best thing to do.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#274816: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:05:56 AM

[up][up]Bullshit. By that definition everything is history; preserve all the racist infrastructure Robert Moses built so we can teach kids why it was bad by keeping it.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 20th 2019 at 12:06:55 PM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#274817: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:09:09 AM

The statues are history.

You don't learn any history by looking at those statues - if anything, they distort history.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#274818: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:09:20 AM

I'm just concerned that "Here is the little photo album of pictures Steve took of the statue before it got turned into a steel portapotty 20 years ago" is going to be much less impactful than "here is a giant statue people paid good money for to venerate and whitewash someone who bought and sold human lives". The message that will (ideally) be preserved and taught in museums is that the descendants of the Confederacy put a lot of money and time into the Lost Cause myth - not what the statue itself wants to say, but what the creation of the statue says.

It's been fun.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#274819: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:11:04 AM

"Everything is history." Correct. Which is why going out of your way to destroy and remove every example of something, whether because you see it as obsolete or unworthy of being kept, is no better than deliverately peddling a distorted image of the past.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#274820: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:12:28 AM

We don't need to keep all of them, but let's not throw four in a storage container, the rest in the paving machine, and pretend racism is solved forever because we got rid of the objects the racists made.

I don't think anyone is under the impression that merely getting rid of the statues would solve all of the problems with the Lost Cause mythology. My main concern is just getting rid of them ASAP because they distort history, waste public space and make people of color (especially black people) deeply uncomfortable. Take a few pictures/preserve a small handful of them at most, but then torch the rest.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#274821: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:12:30 AM

The statues are actually lies about history. Removing them corrects the record rather than distorting it. Sure, keep a few so we can point to them as evidence of the lies, but that's as far as we need to go.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 20th 2019 at 12:13:08 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#274822: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:13:04 AM

To my understanding, the problem with a lot of these statues is that they are quite recent creations. They don't have much historical value, thus. Some of them might have artistic value, but I bet it's not many.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#274823: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:13:32 AM

[up][up][up][up]How dare eastern bloc countries post USSR melt down statues of Stalin etc, those history erasing monsters.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 20th 2019 at 12:13:58 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#274824: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:13:52 AM

They don't even have artistic value. Damn near all of them look like cheap shit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#274825: Mar 20th 2019 at 9:14:53 AM

Yeah, from what I saw most of them are total amateur hour bullshit and would be good for a laugh as poorly made kitsch if not for what they represent.


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