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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It's not "conspiracy theories" to acknowledge that can and will mean the difference for a lot of candidates.
It's called how the system is designed to allow the elected representatives of the Democratic Party and its members to have influence.
It's also superior to a straight vote. If you're a candidate of a party that party should have influence.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.NPR noted some similarities between candidates on specific issues and wondered if their current or previous experiences in certain offices are uniting them in the regard.
Nearly all the candidates who are senators are lukewarm or flat out against getting rid of the filibuster. Warren being the most obvious exception.
Candidates who either were are are mayors more confident in their ability to get bipartisan bills passed.
x6 Personally, I don't see Biden running. I think he sees that Americans (especially Democrats) want a more Liberal Candidate to represent them, and that someone like him, tied (justly or unjustly) to the Neoliberal 'Establishment' might make him win the Primary but lose against Trump (like what happened to Hillary). What I expect is that he will stay in the background and give support to the Democratic Nominee (be it Sanders or whoever), but will also go around supporting more Centrist/Neoliberal Democrats (and Republicans) running in swing/Conservative States.
x5 Yeah, Nunes has no real case, he's just wasting his time and his money.
x2 He could be talking about the Superdelegate System the Democratic Primaries have, although considering everyone who is currently running is more Liberal (at least in some ways) then Biden (with the possible exception of Gabbard), I think the Superdelegates would be crazy to ignore State winners and just throw votes at Biden, whether he'd win that way or not.
Edited by DingoWalley1 on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:15:29 PM
Biden as candidate would get torn apart by Me Too. I mean, how many unique stories are there of him groping women? The Democrats need to keep women on board — which they can't do if their own nominee is handsy, and they need to keep POC on board — which they can't do with Mister Scranton. And they need to keep the Young Left around, which they can't do with Biden being the neoliberal Last Man.
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The superdelegates have never overridden the cumulative will of the Democratic voter base. Not once. It's completely paranoid to suggest that the party would foist an unwelcome candidate over the base's objections. Even Hillary, especially Hillary won a decisive victory over Bernie — 12 percentage points and far more proprtional delegates — which outstripped even the most generous margins of polling error by more than two-fold.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Mar 19th 2019 at 3:19:22 PM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."![]()
I’ll just be over here rolling my eyes back into my skull. The superdelegates flipped for Obama because he had the primary votes. Bernie did not. Bernie got mathematically nuked on Super Tuesday; he couldn’t recover from that deficit. And serves him right for incompetent campaigning in the south and having Jeff Weaver and Tad Devine in charge. Did the party stick a thumb on the scale in various ways? Sure. Was it the difference between victory and defeat? LOL NOPE.
Source: was a Bernie delegate at the 2016 DNC, already had this conversation a dozen times, including with campaign staffers who acknowledged these issues. One of whom is now working on his 2020 campaign so if SHE said there were organizing issues, I believe her.
Eh, she tried to acknowledge the thumb on the scale but the Bernie camp blew her comments out of all context and proportion.
Edited by wisewillow on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:52:37 PM
An overt attempt to try to “steal” the primary nomination via super delegates or other convention shenanigans would likely destroy the Democratic Party.
If they really don’t want someone getting the nomination they would likely use more indirect methods then that, and even then I think Party aligned donor/ interest groups are more likely to be the ones try something like that then the DNC itself.
In 1972, superdelegates didn't exist, and the utter curbstomp in the general was the impetus for their institution — as a "break glass if we nominate the unelectable" strategy. It's never been used for that purpose. Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary — all the nominees since 1976, ALL of them elected by a clear popular vote majority.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."At the risk of pointing out how gross and despicable it is to associate political maneuvering and corruption with Jews, what exactly do you think the point of republican (small R) government is if not to make sure that capable professionals are there to handle the business of government instead of amateurs?
I support the Super Delegate system for this reason.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 19th 2019 at 10:01:47 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Republican small government politics as a pathway to technocracy? You're talking nonsense again, Charles. It has the opposite purpose and opposite effect, hollowing out the government of experts.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Mar 19th 2019 at 1:03:50 PM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
If you believe that people with no understanding of issues should have direct control over them then I have a bridge to sell you in San Fransisco.
Seriously, the super delegate system is a good reflection of republican values in selecting professionals to handle business.
They can and should have a larger say in who is their parties' democracy. It will very likely determine who, what, and when happens with the party nominee.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.For fuck's sake, the super delegates have never been the determining factor in who the nominee is.
I mean, this is exactly the kind of utterly delusional argument that highlights exactly why the whole superdelegate system needs to go — it does not, and has never fulfilled its intended purpose, but it gives utterly paranoid people the erroneous belief that the populist candidate du jour who lost by millions of votes nationwide was held by back conspiratorial forces.
And as for whether the superdelegate system was right...in 1972, the Democratic base had for the first time in history the unmitigated and complete chance to nominate a candidate based entirely on votes with no input from the governing Democrats — they nominated Mc Govern, who won only one state plus DC and brought in Nixon, term II. Sometimes, the "people" are fucking moronic in every way.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Mar 19th 2019 at 1:09:44 PM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."- Watergate
- PRISM
- The Iraq War fake-out
- Lying about Vietnam War casualties
- Roger Stone's efforts to block the Bush Florida recount
- The coverup of Tobacco's health damage
- The coverup of the American food systems unhealthiness and fat
- Iran-Contra
- Hoover's abuse of minorities and Civil Rights groups
- The Epstein Human Trafficking Coverup
- The Emissions Cover up by Ford
Nixon's attempt to disenfranchise black voters and hippies with the War on Drugs Generally, if there's corporations or the Right Wing involved then there's probably something going on. I also tend to view anything the Right accuses the Left of then it's probably some level of truth.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 19th 2019 at 10:07:49 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I still remember when Sanders' supporters tried appealing to the superdelegates when it became clear they couldn't win with votes. After they spent a lot of time condemning the superdelegate system as being unfair and rigging the primaries.
I guess they figured rigging the primaries would be okay as long as their guy won.
Disgusted, but not surprised

I know you love to indulge in conspiracy theories, Charles, but this one is off base. Biden needs to declare his campaign to be on the ballot, and then he needs to actually win elections.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."