Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Er, we talking about the law discussed in this Snopes
article? Because it looks a lot more symbolic that way.
Bernie Sanders' campaign is the first major campaign that we know of to unionize.
Well, he's putting his money where his mouth is, at any rate.
And in infuriating news, remember the Charles Kinsey shooting from a couple years back? The black social worker who was laying down on the ground with his arms upraised and still got shot (and survived) by a police officer? And the officer subsequently claimed (and still does) that he was actually aiming at the autistic man because he thought he was posing a threat to Kinsey?
Well, a Florida jury has acquitted him on a Misdemeanor charge of culpable negligence
, and deadlocked on 3 other charges. Sadly, it was because one of the jurors didn't buy his story - the other 5 voted for acquittal.
Seriously, the fuck is wrong with us!? This is a case in which he fired from behind police lines, and past other officers - none of whom responded the way he did!
Edit: Ugh, fuck me, the article explains that, apparently: The scene commander radioed that the man appeared to be “re-loading.” - which would explain why Aledda acted the way he did. And yet I fucking guarantee that the scene commander, despite being fired, will face no criminal charges for it, so no one involved in this shit suffers legal consequences for it. Of course, those at the front had also relayed via radio that they were convinced it wasn't a gun at all, which Aledda claimed to not hear because his radio was faulty - which doesn't gel very well with the former point.
Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 16th 2019 at 10:06:23 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?""Well, he's putting his money where his mouth is, at any rate."
As he almost always does.
@Cops Shooting helpless black people: We cant know why the jury found as they did unless we know what kind of evidence they were presented with by the prosecutor and the defending attorney. I dont know the answer to that question, but here's a clue: in the US police prosecutions are handled by the same prosecutors office that has to work with police to convict any other crimminal. The conflict of interest is obvious. The simplest solution, I think, is the establishment in every state of a prosecutor's department who do nothing except investigate crmimes committed by law enforcement personell.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.And we know how well that would go in the current Senate.
RE the mandatory AR-15 ownership bill: I'm seriously baffled why he specifically named the AR-15 instead of just saying the much more inclusive "firearm". Shouldn't he be appealing to all firearms manufacturers, instead of the ones that make AR-15s?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
That tends to be more when it's before a grand jury that a prosecutor will half-ass it - it seems like the prosecutors in this case are going whole-hog on it, likely in part because he fired past other officers, thereby putting their lives in danger, which is an easier sell to the local precincts.
I think it's partially to be realistic - with a GOP-controlled Senate, such a bill would likely be dead on arrival. That said, it'd be interesting to see just what rationale they would try to kill the proposal with - likely more "small government" rhetoric.
Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 16th 2019 at 11:26:02 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?""And we know how well that would go in the current Senate."
I'm sorry, but I really dont understand the purpose of saying things like this. Are we supposed to give up discussing potential solutions because we dont expect the Republicans to agree with us?
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
x3 They might be specifically picking AR-15 ownership because AR-15's are one of the most controversial guns to own right now. Semi-Automatic and Assault Rifles are really at the forefront of the Gun debate in the US, so forcing everyone in Missouri to own one would help those who want minimal gun control (It'd especially keep talks of banning Semi-Automatics and Assaults from being possible in Missouri).
![]()
![]()
No, just highlighting the obvious major hurdle in making such a thing a reality. Sarcastic quip at the GOP's obstructionism, you know?
Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 16th 2019 at 9:07:52 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.As he almost always does.
Which is one of the reasons that even if I don't agree with him, I respect him.
I consider myself to be extremely pro-police and I think it's a good idea.
Edited by Soban on Mar 16th 2019 at 2:12:17 PM
>How do you reconcile your libertarianism with a strong pro-police stance?
TLDR; I'm not an anarchist.
There are institutions and such that we do need. The role of the police is to help maintain the the non-aggression principle and enforce the consequences when it is broken. Even if we got rid of them, they would reemerge as what they do is something we need. When it comes to if a officer was justified or not, I often find myself falling on the police side of things. I also view a lot of movements as eroding police authority that they need to do their job effectively.
That is not to say I think that the police as they currently exist are perfect, I think we need to move to a more Peelian model of policing and that the solution to problematic police responses to minority issues is more minority policemen. People who come from these minority communities and are still a part of them while also keeping the peace.
Edited by Soban on Mar 16th 2019 at 3:34:59 PM
In theory libertarianism advocates for small government, but in practice it doesn't amount to much more than an It's All About Me-flavored "rebellious teen" phase. People being told what to do is only really a problem when it's them being told what to do.
That's how I see it at least.
i'm tired, my friendYeah, I don't like Sanders but I can at least respect his sincerity.
That's part of the reason I loath O'Rourke, unlike Sanders he stands for nothing.
You don't even need to go that far back, the gilded age and robber barons are much more recent and clearly show the nonviability of Libertarianism and other laissez-faire ideologies.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 16th 2019 at 1:42:36 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangEvery generation, people think they've reinvented libertarianism and wonder why everyone doesn't adopt it as the most obvious and sensible form of governance. After all, everyone else who tried it before and failed miserably must have been doing it wrong. It has the same problem as many other political ideologies: they cannot fail; they can only be failed.
The problem with all civil authority in a libertarian society is that it's for sale to the highest bidder. That is, after all, the basic principle of the thing. Everyone thinks they'll be on the winning side of that scenario, but ... yeah.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Of course, AR-15s aren’t really used in crime all that often. Bad actors typically reach for a handgun or shotgun first, both of which are typically much easier to get than an AR anyways.
They should have sent a poet.