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GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#274226: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:27:19 AM

He *might* die in prison, he'll almost certainly spend the majority of his retirement years on the inside. Good.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#274227: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:29:40 AM

Pathetic. A measly eight years after all the shit he pulled. I had such high hopes for Berman Jackson, but I guess she's little better than Ellis. Though really, I should have known, after how she didn't immediately revoke Roger Stone's bail and gave him so many chances to follow her gag order, despite him encouraging blatant death threats against her via his followers.

Once again, rich white guy gets a slap on the wrist. *sighs*

Edit: Compared to what he could have served, this still seems pretty light to me.

Edited by Ingonyama on Mar 13th 2019 at 9:30:43 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#274228: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:31:42 AM

8 years for a 70 year old man is a lot longer than it seems.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#274229: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:34:09 AM

Hmm, I guess. And if I recall correctly, she only could have given him two more years under the sentencing guidelines Mueller laid out. Still, the fact some of it is concurrent with the other is disappointing too.

Edited by Ingonyama on Mar 13th 2019 at 9:48:52 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#274230: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:41:46 AM

I'm less concerned with the eight year sentence with the possibility that Trump could pardon him and turn that eight year sentence to zero. Of course, analysts have said it would be political suicide to do it before a potential 2020 win, but I still wouldn't put it past him.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#274231: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:44:08 AM

Trump pardoning Manafort would require Trump to have shown any loyalty to his strongest supporters.

Which he has not.

Ever.

Investors, friends, lawyers, or others.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#274232: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:50:29 AM

Also, if he pardons him, Manafort loses his Fifth Amendment protection and has to testify. Plus he can still be charged by the states (I believe the ones with jurisdiction would be New York and Virginia), and since he already pleaded guilty to at least some of those charges...

Edited by Ingonyama on Mar 13th 2019 at 9:50:38 AM

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#274233: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:56:48 AM

Why does a presidential pardon negate the pardoned person's Fifth Amendment protection?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#274234: Mar 13th 2019 at 9:57:59 AM

You can't self-incriminate yourself on something you've already plead guilty to.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#274235: Mar 13th 2019 at 10:00:39 AM

In accepting a pardon, you accept guilt. It does not entirely erase the crime, its just the government's way of saying "you are guilty, but forgiven". Because you are no longer in legal jeopardy, the government can then demand that you spill everything you know.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#274236: Mar 13th 2019 at 10:02:32 AM

Washington Post: Five myths about presidential pardons

Myth No. 1 You must be charged and convicted before you can be pardoned.

...

Myth No. 2 Nixon resigned only after Ford promised to pardon him.

...

Myth No. 3 President Obama pardoned Chelsea Manning and Oscar López Rivera.

...

Myth No. 4 Pardons are only for guilty people; accepting one is an admission of guilt.

In 1915, the Supreme Court wrote in Burdick v. United States that a pardon “carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.” Over the years, many have come to see a necessary relationship between a pardon and guilt. Ford carried the Burdick quote in his wallet, defending the Nixon pardon by noting that it established Nixon’s guilt. More recently, MSNBC host Ari Melber taunted Arpaio by saying he had admitted he was guilty when he accepted Trump’s pardon.

But Burdick was about a different issue: the ability to turn down a pardon. The language about imputing and confessing guilt was just an aside — what lawyers call dicta. The court meant that, as a practical matter, because pardons make people look guilty, a recipient might not want to accept one. But pardons have no formal, legal effect of declaring guilt.

Indeed, in rare cases pardons are used to exonerate people. This was Trump’s rationale for posthumously pardoning boxer Jack Johnson, the victim of a racially based railroading in 1913. Ford pardoned Iva Toguri d’Aquino (World War II’s “Tokyo Rose”) after “60 Minutes” revealed that she was an innocent victim of prosecutors who suborned perjured testimony in her treason case. President George H.W. Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger because he thought the former defense secretary, indicted in the Iran-contra affair, was a victim of “the criminalization of policy differences.” If the president pardons you because he thinks you are innocent, what guilt could accepting that pardon possibly admit?

Myth No. 5

The law on self-pardons is clear.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#274237: Mar 13th 2019 at 10:05:11 AM

[up][up][up][up]Burdick vs U.S., specifically in relation to Nixon/Ford. Later interpretation is that accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt, stripping that person of certain 5th amendment protections-specifically the bit about self incrimination (since that person admits their guilt and incriminates themselves by accepting the pardon). Still a bit of a gray area, though.

[nja]'d, as usual.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Mar 13th 2019 at 1:05:47 PM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#274238: Mar 13th 2019 at 10:05:59 AM

New York just brought a bunch of charges against Manafort in the state court. Even if he is pardoned by Trump, he's not going to be a free man for a while.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#274240: Mar 13th 2019 at 3:43:39 PM

[up][up] Now I wonder if NY has similar pardon-proofing measures on Trump's other cohorts.

on another topic. I've been looking up the "Disco Sucks" movement lately because I noticed certain parallels between them and the alt-right, and this article from a site named "Filthy Dreams" seems to be the most in depth with describing these parallels.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Mar 13th 2019 at 4:03:31 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#274241: Mar 13th 2019 at 4:07:44 PM

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/cohen-email-trump-dangled-pardon-obstruction-justice-mueller.html

Cohen admits Trump dangled a pardon in front of him.

Oh and he has proof.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#274242: Mar 13th 2019 at 4:11:24 PM

[up][up]The hate against Disco has always been rooted in homophobia and xenophobia, it's really no surprise the alt-right embraces that.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#274243: Mar 13th 2019 at 4:21:00 PM

And racism. Disco started with black artists.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#274244: Mar 13th 2019 at 4:43:57 PM

There's a bit more nuance to the disco sucks thing. But yes, when it was introduced as a meme the people who created it were confused at how big and huge the movement became and how "disco is dead" became such a thing overnight.

The reason, of course, was that Saturday Night Fever had repackaged a very queer friendly colorful music scene as white and—of course—the ugly specter of American racism emerged.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 13th 2019 at 5:01:18 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#274245: Mar 13th 2019 at 4:58:22 PM

That would explain a lot. There are a lot of music genres that I loathe more than Disco, so I never understood its Memetic Loser status.

I wonder if Rap gets the same treatment in the future? I won't lie, I wouldn't mind that.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#274246: Mar 13th 2019 at 4:59:36 PM

The pushback against rap has already happened and failed miserably.

Now we have country music stars guest starring with 2nd tier rappers.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 13th 2019 at 4:59:56 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#274247: Mar 13th 2019 at 5:00:39 PM

To get back to the campaign trail for a second, Tulsi Gabbard went on the late show to talk isolationism. (Because that’s worked out so well in the past)

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 13th 2019 at 8:02:34 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#274248: Mar 13th 2019 at 5:01:46 PM

Its amazing how Gabbard is a thing after everything she's said.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#274249: Mar 13th 2019 at 5:19:25 PM

I'm getting word that Beto O'Rorke (D-TX) is officially running for President. Although I can't confirm it beyond this article. He's supposedly going to officially declare his Candidacy tomorrow morning.

I think the field is too cluttered at this point, and a lot of these people are good, but I can't see them rising and staying risen. It's going to be 2012's "Republican Front Runner every other week" all over again.

All I know is, whoever becomes our Mitt Romney, we've gotta vote for them no matter what (unless it's Gabbard, then we're screwed).

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#274250: Mar 13th 2019 at 5:20:50 PM

Beto is an idiot, he SHOULD be running against Cornyn. We need that Senate seat!!!!


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