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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
>Do you really think that, after all this, that we aren't really listening to what the right-wing has to say?
We're listening to what the right wing has to say, so closely we hear what they're really saying with every shibboleth they employ. And it's because we're listening that we know that these people must be utterly opposed politically, overcome, and culturally marginalized from top to bottom if we are to catalyze the birth of a better country.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Mar 7th 2019 at 4:38:25 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."![]()
And in what way would you say that's the case? The modern GOP basically runs on white aggrievement, plutocracy, and xenophobia. They employ dangerous, irresponsible policies that are not supported by any kind of serious scientific or academic research.
What exactly is this golden point of compromise you're suggesting with these positions? Because they are all measurably and morally terrible.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 7th 2019 at 5:43:34 AM
Also pointing out that part of the reason we're here is from years of the Dems believing that they can meet the Republicans in the middle ground and the GOP consistently saying "no" including when it genuinely hurt themselves.
This shit is why I left the Republican party. The party stopped standing for anything but "help the wealthy, hurt the dems" and didn't care who else got hurt in the process, themselves including. They abandoned fiscal responsibility and small government in order to fuck over the other side. They built a culture around that and it's frankly indefensible.
And for most of the Obama era the Dems kept trying to reason and compromise. And still consistently try to take the high road, for all that it does them.
I don't think all Republicans are evil but I know the GOP is.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Speaking as a Republican, I can say that party's gotten to a point where it's stopped representing much other than acting as a gadfly to the Democrats.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
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Oh there's plenty of such motivations, such as a firm belief in an ideal "capitalism" and the American Dream, where you can make it in this country with just enough effort. And even if we argue that's wrong, it's still an innocent, benign, even admirable worldview...
...On the face of it. When taken in isolation. (Which is where many, largely political disengaged people would be).
But in the context of a larger discourse, such positions become fundamentally entwined with politics that throw children in cages while proclaiming it is the will of God.
Edited by Eschaton on Mar 7th 2019 at 1:49:40 AM
Somehow, I don't think that Collin Peterson and Steve Bullock and Jon Tester and Joe Manchin - prominent "compromise" Democrats - have moved towards "discourse, such positions become fundamentally entwined with politics that throw children in cages while proclaiming it is the will of God." And yet they all won reelection in very Trump friendly constituencies.
Anyhow, the generalizing here isn't useful. It's correct to say that many Republicans are motivated by shoddy/odious reasons but clearly not all of them are. And hammering the point isn't a way to win elections or wavering Republicans over and doesn't make a pleasant forum discussion. Moral high grounds and grousing aren't psephologically useful.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynmanthat grace and forgiveness are necessary for reconciliation.
You can't exactly forgive those that are unrepentant for it. I'll admit, that's part of my discomfort with some of the sexual assault allegations that have come out - the ones that admit and apologize for it get pilloried, while those that deny any wrongdoing sometimes pull a Karma Houdini.
And that said, there's a rather pithy political cartoon depicting a GOP legislator saying to Obama "If you move on this issue, I'll move on it." So Obama takes a step towards him... only for the legislator step away from Obama with a Smug Snake smile.
Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 7th 2019 at 5:05:28 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"As has been said, individual Republicans don't have to be horribly racist/sexist/homophobic/etc, but the Republican Party as an institution is all of those things, and there's no point in pretending it isn't.
And, also, a lot of individual Republicans are those things as well. I try not to assume the very worst of people, but if I meet a Republican I kind of take it as a given that they probably hold some views I highly disagree with, at best, and consider utterly reprehensible, at worst.
By tolerate we mean treat as a valid politician positon that one can start from and treat as a reasonable edge point to compromise from. By bigots we mean people who consider minorities lesser than them and worthy of death and/or torture.
They wouldn’t. Because it’s not possible to be both a good person and well informed while voting republican. You can be a good person who is ignorant, or you can be a bad person who is well informed, but when a part advocates torture, the erosion of democracy and open white supremacy voting for that party while knowing what they advocate for makes you a bad person.
Now me I’m an optimist, I honestly believe that most Republican voters are ignorant and not malicious, they can be talked round because they’re not bad people, at a minimum many of them can be won over strategically by allowing their self interest to overpower their badness, yes they’re bad people, but we can work with bad people by giving them good things if they do good things, that’s how we try and reform criminals after all.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranSeeing as republicans have fought for the right of parents to torture their LGBT children and for the rights of cops to shoot unarmed black men without consequences, I find your definition of “very few” confusing.
I mean I guess that elected republicans could constitute “very few” people due to the small number of elected officials in the US, but the power their wield is very real and so are the calls to compromise with them.
Edited by Silasw on Mar 7th 2019 at 11:13:28 AM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe Republican Party platform that the left is being asked to compromise with:
- Unraveling of civil rights
- Dismantling of LGBT+ rights in the name of "religious freedom"
- Increased police presence in poor/"urban" (read: black) communities
- Armed guards and staff at schools to "combat" school shootings
- Simultaneously making it easier for emotionally unstable (white) people to obtain assault rifles
- Nigh complete corporate deregulation
I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but I think my point has been made. You cannot reasonably claim to care about minorities/women/LGBT= people/the poor and support the Republican Party, especially now.
Hell, Obama tried that throughout almost his entire presidency. And look where that got him.
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Mar 7th 2019 at 6:21:19 AM
i'm tired, my friendYes.
As far as I'm concerned, the mere fact of Donald J Trump's election, and the fact that the majority of prominent Republicans are in lock-step with him, says everything I care to know. Only now, now that they've taken electoral hits and stand to take more thanks directly to him are we seeing any kind of serious collective spine among the Republicans, and even it is considered vastly unreliable.
Come to think of it, have we even seen any senior politician saying what’s said here more or less?
That the polarization is happening for a good reason and that the Republican Party can not be worked with in good faith at all?
Or more direct like Crimson, they are evil, flat out, and must be more or less destroyed?
The fallouts at Biden when he called Pence a good person were pretty much that, I think that the big names to call Biden out were Warren, Sanders and AOC, Biden himself then walked his statement back.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThere was some polling done, and sorry I can't find the article right now, that showed up until recently, Democrats were more open to compromise and reaching across the aisle. But during those same years it showed Republicans were very much against compromise.
So trying to reach a middle ground wasn't proving very effective when the other side sees being inflexible as a virtue.

To be more blunt- there’s no middle ground on whether we should lock children in cages, or let gay teens be forced into conversion therapy, or protect rapists, or maintain white supremacy. You either oppose racism, sexism, etc., or you enable them.