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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#273576: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:33:38 PM

There's really nothing McConnell can do at this point that would shock me, up to and including removing his face to reveal he was the Grinch all along.

I mean, the man starts with, "deliberately refuse to nominate any Supreme Court Justice Obama would like."

Almost everyone believes he'll lose the next election, though, which is insane in Kentucky. It is the reddest state in the union and the loathing of the man is extreme.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 7th 2019 at 12:35:04 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#273577: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:36:22 PM

If that happens I’m not sure how to adequately express my feelings. And he’d go to some cushy corporate job immediately and he’s already taken a wrecking ball to the courts. But god I want him gone. Cut the head off the damn snake.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#273579: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:40:00 PM

It is indisputable that, while Trump is vile, McConnell has acted as his enabler, giving him a compliant Senate that refuses to take the slightest action to impede or countermand him. This man has been in government a long time; he is not an incompetent buffoon. He knows exactly what he is doing and why.

McConnell is the face of the modern Republican Party: utterly indifferent to morality and ethics as long as it can stay in power.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 7th 2019 at 3:40:53 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#273580: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:41:48 PM

See, if I believed in reincarnation I'd be tempted to say that Evil Turtle is Josif Stalin reincarnated in a different political system.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#273581: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:51:37 PM

>Well what do you propose we do then? Because this is not a conflict where both sides are on the same moral or factual ground here.

I don't have all of the answers. What I do know is that love is more powerful then hate, that empathy and compassion can melt the stony heart, that grace and forgiveness are necessary for reconciliation.

Ask yourself why would a good, well informed, ect person do that or vote that way? What points of view do they have that I don't? How do they order their values? When you ask these questions of large swaths of people and find yourself concluding 'because they are bad or evil' then you are almost always off track.

If I had to summarize in two words, love and forgiveness. Love because it works and forgiveness because they are wrong.

Love doesn't mean agreeing with someone or doing what they want you to. How to apply it in these hard times and hard discussions isn't easy, but it's worth it. In a way, we don't love for them, we love for who we become in the process.

There is much more ink that could be split here but won't be in this post.

Edited by Soban on Mar 7th 2019 at 3:53:09 PM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#273582: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:54:12 PM

[up] Well, that’s great. Good thing your very own article showed that Democrats are less likely to hate the opposing party than Republicans, right?

Let’s hope you’re not suggesting we should start tolerating bigots though.

They should have sent a poet.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#273583: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:56:00 PM

>Well, that’s great. Good thing your very own article showed that Democrats are less likely to hate the opposing party than Republicans, right?

By within the magin of error? Yhea, huge improvement there.

>Let’s hope you’re not suggesting we should start tolerating bigots though.

I guess that depends on what you mean by tolerate and what you mean by bigot.

Edited by Soban on Mar 7th 2019 at 3:56:14 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#273584: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:56:50 PM

As I pointed out last page, you're uselessly preaching to the choir here. 21% of Democrats think Republicans are evil while 61% of Democrats think Republicans are bigoted. To me, that says that most Democrats already have open minds to the possibility of Republicans changing their ways and getting better, and they're not automatically evil just because they're bigoted.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#273585: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:57:15 PM

One thing to consider is that Trump voters won't magically disappear into thin air and wishing for it to happen anyway is a dick move. So a bit of arrangement will be needed anyway.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#273586: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:58:16 PM

[up][up][up] By that answer alone it’s obvious that you are in fact saying we should tolerate bigotry.

They should have sent a poet.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#273587: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:00:26 PM

You’re also putting all the work on the oppressed and marginalized. When you’re born with a boot on your neck, you shouldn’t be expected to coddle the people putting the boot there. “Love” doesn’t trump hate; it can’t even trump apathy.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273588: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:03:46 PM

Remember when I said this shit?

I've come to realize the "both sides" nonsense stems from the general public holding the left's behavior under a tight scrutiny that the right is simply not subjected to. Whenever someone on the left gets a bit snarky on Twitter, they're treated to tut-tutting, finger waving, and tone policing, while the right can dox, murder, and harass people for pointing out a sexist/racist/etc. moment in a TV show or video game and people will just shrug and go, "Eh, what are you gonna do?" They're always badgering us about civility and professionalism or whatever, but they never do the same to the right.

We're seeing that in action right now.

i'm tired, my friend
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#273589: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:04:55 PM

If I had to summarize in two words, love and forgiveness. Love because it works and forgiveness because they are wrong.

Love doesn't mean agreeing with someone or doing what they want you to. How to apply it in these hard times and hard discussions isn't easy, but it's worth it. In a way, we don't love for them, we love for who we become in the process.

Yeah no offense, but that sounds like a platitude.

There are plenty of reasons that make it possible to understand why people support the republican party in a way that makes them understandable as people who have a life story and a whole trajectory before they became the people they are. The thing is, that doesn't necessarily make them more sympathetic, that their "values" are good, or means that "love and forgiveness" are the solution. Yes, it is more nuanced than "they're the spawn of satan who want to destroy the world", but not in the sense that their beliefs are valid or should be given consideration.

This is also a naked double standard in that centrists or moderates are almost always asking the left to do this, but such requests are rarely ever made to the right. This is a two-way street.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 7th 2019 at 5:07:47 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#273590: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:07:21 PM

>This is also a naked double standard in that centrists or moderates are almost always asking the left to do this, but such requests are rarely ever made to the right. This is a two-way street.

Excuse me while I'm amused by getting very similar responses when I post similar things on more right leaning forums.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#273591: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:08:31 PM

The right leaning forum members are objectively, factually wrong.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#273592: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:09:09 PM

Also:

“Love” doesn’t trump hate; it can’t even trump apathy.

If getting civil rights was as easy as asking nicely, America would have been fixed a long time ago. If it were that simple, life would be so much easier.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 7th 2019 at 5:09:34 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#273593: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:18:35 PM

Nothing shakes people out of apathy like conflict. Imagine if we just gave up and made nice with the Trumpists. People who are always asking "why can't we be friends?" have given up the intellectual labor of understanding why we cannot. The Right doesn't just have a different opinion on policy — they have such a diametrically opposed view of what it means to be an American, a man or a woman, a worker, or a member of a global community that they may as well be speaking a different language and living in a different country.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Mar 7th 2019 at 4:26:10 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#273594: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:23:13 PM

I'm not asking "Why can't we be friends", I'm asking "Can we stop shouting at each other from the top of ours lungs and listen to each other again". To be honest, the answer from both sides seems to be 'no'.

Hopefully in a few years the middle two thirds of the country who are tired of this will shut both of you up.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#273595: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:23:15 PM

The cognitive dissonance required to honestly believe that everything would be better if marginalized people just loved their oppressors more is unbelievable.

[up] you should be directing that at republicans, not democrats, as per your own sources. Your “both of you” rhetoric is quite frankly bullshit.

Edited by archonspeaks on Mar 7th 2019 at 1:30:56 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#273596: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:24:39 PM

Soban, you're buried in the golden mean fallacy. You can shout all you want about how everyone should just get along, but it's not Democrats creating the problem. It's never been.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273597: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:24:51 PM

If the past three years haven't taught you that the answer to the question "can't we all just get along?" is "no", you're hopeless.

i'm tired, my friend
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#273598: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:24:56 PM

There really isn't an even ground to meet Republicans on anymore is the problem.

Their positions are morally indefensible.

Oh really when?
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#273599: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:27:53 PM

Morally, politically, culturally, financially, artistically indefensible. The Republican ideology is the decay of civilization distilled into language.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#273600: Mar 7th 2019 at 1:32:24 PM

I'm asking "Can we stop shouting at each other from the top of ours lungs and listen to each other again"
Do you really think that, after all this, that we aren't really listening to what the right-wing has to say?

Because if anything they've been getting less and less subtle with each passing day.

Unless you mean, "why can't we just agree to disagree and stop getting so worked up about all this?" In which case, there's already plenty of responses.

Edited by Eschaton on Mar 7th 2019 at 1:33:12 AM


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