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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#273476: Mar 6th 2019 at 3:38:51 PM

Nature:The wisdom of polarized crowds

As political polarization in the United States continues to rise, the question of whether polarized individuals can fruitfully cooperate becomes pressing. Although diverse perspectives typically lead to superior team performance on complex tasks, strong political perspectives have been associated with conflict, misinformation and a reluctance to engage with people and ideas beyond one’s echo chamber. ...

Our analysis reveals that polarized teams consisting of a balanced set of ideologically diverse editors produce articles of a higher quality than homogeneous teams. The effect is most clearly seen in Wikipedia’s political articles, but also in social issues and even science articles. Analysis of article ‘talk pages’ reveals that ideologically polarized teams engage in longer, more constructive, competitive and substantively focused but linguistically diverse debates than teams of ideological moderates.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#273477: Mar 6th 2019 at 3:45:15 PM

As applies to US politics, it doesn't really work that well to cooperate with white supremacists and authoritarians. They're not interested in good faith debate, principles, or anything particularly decent.

That's kinda the thing I've learned in the last few years: I don't support the idea of "echo chambers" or completely removing any alternate views, but that whole ideal of everyone respecting each other despite differing political opinions that a lot of us were raised with hinges on an assumption: that a significant portion of people haven't become radicalized, and increasingly support terrible and immoral policies. "Meeting them halfway" is the wrong thing to do in that case.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 6th 2019 at 9:04:12 AM

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#273478: Mar 6th 2019 at 4:15:29 PM

Yeah, ideologically diverse sounds good on paper, but that's assuming that there isn't a significant portion of people whose ideology is flat-out wrong and/or terrible. No science paper benefits from having the opinions of anti-vaxxers or flat-earthers included in it.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#273479: Mar 6th 2019 at 4:16:11 PM

I think the problem here is rather simple: there's a narrative that the left refuses to meet the right halfway, when in truth it is the right that refuses to budge from their side of the table.

The Usonian left isn't particularly extreme: far-left for me invokes stuff like communist terrorism and state atheism. What the right says is the far-left is just, the left.

We have no reason to meet the right halfway as they are now, because to do so would betray what the left stands for.

When/if their side chills out, then the debate and compromises can restart. Until then, I'm fine just where I am, thank you very much.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#273480: Mar 6th 2019 at 5:09:49 PM

Trying to map it as "reactionary" to "radical change" causes issues with trying to identify anything that might normally be considered a left-wing position as right-wing once it's actually in place.

Except that that is literally how it works.

Take 'supporting gay marriage' for instance. A left wing position right?

In the US, maybe, but over here in the Netherlands where we've had same-sex marriage since 2001 the Right and Left both fully support it. It took the Right a while to fully embrace it before the legalisation, but as the Status Quo shifted, so did they. All of the people who still oppose it are on (or sometimes skirting) the Far Right.

And that isn't just a case of our Overton window being much farther to the Left. Our Right wing isn't any less Right wing than the one in the US. Outside of not being influenced by Christian Fundamentalism, the Right wing in the Netherlands holds many of the same social and economic positions that the Right wing in the US does, because outside of Fundamentalist Christians seizing to be a power group here, we're very similar to the US in economic and social position.

Positions and policies aren't Right wing or Left wing except in the context of the current balance of power/status quo. In the US, Fundamentalist Christians are a privileged group, so they're part of the Right wing and implement stupid stuff to keep their power intact. In the Netherlands, they used to be privileged, but aren't any more, so they're part of the Far Right and the Right wing blocks their attempts to wrest power from the current privileged groups and back to themselves.

Edited by Robrecht on Mar 6th 2019 at 2:13:49 PM

Angry gets shit done.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#273481: Mar 6th 2019 at 5:17:45 PM

It still doesn't work like that, because you can have policies that have been implemented and are established—so trying to remove them is against the status quo. This can come from either direction. Just consider arguments about making something a crime or decriminalisation. Depending on what the action in question is, you can have defending the status quo from the left or right of any given state.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#273482: Mar 6th 2019 at 5:32:22 PM

Abortion, for example. Roe v Wade was ruled on back in the 70s, and the right has been trying to limit its reach for more than 40 years.

Edited by Clarste on Mar 6th 2019 at 5:32:50 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#273483: Mar 6th 2019 at 5:43:30 PM

@Robretch: That perhaps can be useful as a description of an individual or party's relationship with their own society, but becomes fairly useless when comparing societies to each other...or even specific policies to each other. For example, by your definition, a person wanting to rebuild the Soviet Union would be a far-rightist, even though they'd tend to be considered very leftist anywhere else.

Moreover, many aspects of society are Older Than They Think or Newer Than They Think, a lot of things leftists usually want have existed in the past. On the flipside, the right doesn't necessarily want to maintain the current status quo or return to a previous one, even when they claim they do. There are rightist philosophies that are more focused on the future than on the past.

To be fair, I would call Conservatism less a set of policies and more an attitude on society, culture, etc. This is why conservatives tend to be a Broken Base on say, the Confederacy. Conservatives who identify with The South support it as the cultural heritage they want to celebrate, Conservatives who identify with the North view the Confederacy as a sort of anti-America and glorify its destruction as part of their heritage.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Mar 6th 2019 at 5:49:04 AM

Leviticus 19:34
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#273484: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:15:18 PM

Fact check: Did Ocasio-Cortez and her team break campaign finance law?

The answer is apparently most likely not, though several conservative organizations are alleging she did.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#273485: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:28:24 PM

I am in awe of Republican efforts to make AOC their new Pelosi-Clinton boogeyman.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#273486: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:30:03 PM

[up]To be honest I don't envy her. Being in that position must be beyond exhausting.

vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#273487: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:45:45 PM

On one hand, she's now in a position of power, popularity, and notability with so much momentum.

On the other, well, it's still that, but as a target. She is undeniably the new boogeyman for right wingers so yeah.

Honestly don't really know anything about AOC.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#273488: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:46:41 PM

Well, to be honest it's probably a good thing if she's a magnet for all their hate, since she's not running for president in 2020.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273489: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:49:00 PM

That just gives them time to throw everything they can at her, so if she does run some time in the future, they'll have a laundry list of bullshit to put in attack ads.

[down]That's why I say "some time in the future".

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Mar 6th 2019 at 10:48:43 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#273490: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:55:09 PM

She can't legally run for a decade. And probably won't be presidential material for close to 20.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#273491: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:00:06 PM

RE the WTFJHT feed from the previous page:

Trump intends to nominate Jessie Liu to be the associate attorney general. Liu is the current U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, which has taken the lead on handling Mueller's criminal case against Roger Stone, and convened a grand jury to investigate whether former FBI Deputy Director Andrew Mc Cabe should face criminal charges for lying to investigators about his interactions with reporters. By moving Liu out of that job, Trump can now nominate somebody to oversee some of the prosecutions brought by Mueller. Liu also served on Trump's transition team at the Justice Department. She acknowledged that her 2017 in-person interview with Trump before he nominated her to be U.S. attorney was "unusual," since U.S. attorneys don't normally meet with the president as part of the interview process.
Is there any way to counter this move?

Mitch Mc Connell is again preparing to use the "nuclear option" to change Senate rules and allow a simple majority to confirm conservative judges to lifetime appointments. The Senate is on track to confirm Trump's 34th Circuit Court judge.
Ugh. Seriously, you guys are sure that proving the illegitimacy of a POTUS' election to office doesn't automatically make any appointments that they made/confirmed as POTUS similarly illegitimate?

New commercial imagery and analysis reveal that North Korea has started a "rapid rebuilding" of its long-range ballistic missile site at the Sohae Launch Facility. The site is North Korea's only operational space launch facility, and uses similar technology to what is used to launch intercontinental ballistic missiles. The renewed activity was observed just two days after the latest summit in Hanoi, Vietnam between Trump and Kim Jong-Un, and "may indicate North Korean plans to demonstrate resolve in the face of U.S. rejection of North Korea's demands at the summit to lift five U.N. Security Council sanctions enacted in 2016-2017," according to a project sponsored by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Trump's Nobel peace prize for him "convincing" North Korea to abandon its nuclear program should be rescinded... if he ever received it, that is.

Trump canceled the requirement that U.S. intelligence officials publicly report the numbers of people killed in drone strikes and other attacks on terrorist targets outside of war zones. The Obama-era rule was part of an accountability effort to minimize civilian deaths from drone strikes.
Oh, joy. Here we go, back to the days where the US military doesn't give a fuck about any civilian collateral casualties of their drone strikes in the Greater Middle East.

ICE has been keeping tabs on a series of left-leaning and "anti-Trump protests" in New York City. The agency tracked protests that promoted immigrants' rights and those that opposed Trump's deportation policies, plus one protest against the NRA and one that was organized by a sitting member of Congress.
Red flag! This is blatantly exceeding the agency's remit to completely unrelated areas, is it not???

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#273492: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:08:33 PM

[up] 1) Yes, the person can simply refuse the job; Liu can simply stay as Attorney for DC, and ignore Trump's invite to become Vice Attorney General.

5) That looks like it to me.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#273493: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:21:18 PM

And in Fighteer's quote news, New Hampshire Republican men wore pearl necklaces when attending a hearing with proponents of gun control, with the subtext quite clear - that those wanting gun restrictions were 'clutching at their pearls'.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#273494: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:40:24 PM

[up] Why is that even news? If he wants to let his inner fashionista show, then hey, who am I to judge? tongue

Honestly though, why even bother dignifying a stunt like that with a response?

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 6th 2019 at 10:51:52 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273495: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:51:09 PM

[up][up]Honestly that just sends the message that gun owners are clutching their pearls at the thought of having their Republican penis extensions being taken away. It's a self-own, something they seem to be good at as of late.

i'm tired, my friend
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#273496: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:55:36 PM

[up] Why are they even trying to legitimize something as stupid as this, anyway? Wouldn’t it be better to just ignore it completely, or even better:

“Several Male New Hampshire Lawmakers Appeared to Boldly Break Gender Stereotype by wearing Pearl Necklaces to Today’s hearing on Gun Violence.”

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 6th 2019 at 11:08:58 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#273497: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:06:21 PM

Because it's important to highly exactly how disrespectful this act was, and how little they demonstrably think of their constituents.

It's also sexist.

It's been fun.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#273499: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:14:01 PM

[up][up] I would just rather not legitimize it at all.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#273500: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:14:40 PM

Calling assholes out for being assholes isn’t legitimizing them.


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