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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#273251: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:13:38 AM

> In Germany marriage has become something you do after you have already lived with your partner for a couple of years.

Living with your partner for awhile before marrying them is pretty common actually outside Germany

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#273252: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:15:34 AM

@Swanpride: Frankly, I think setting marriagible age at 21 would be for the best.

Because you should be able to vote and die in a war before you're able to marry or drink.

The idea of limiting things to 21 is bizarre.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#273253: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:19:47 AM

Put those thing to 21 as well, problem solved.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#273254: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:20:51 AM

Absolutely not. You’re legally an adult at 18. You should be able to vote.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#273255: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:21:44 AM

So just disenfranchise everyone old enough to be working but not at a slightly higher arbitrary limit. Or are you going to claim that should all be at 21 for no adequately explained reason?

The better thing would be to drop the stupid 21 exclusivity drinking laws have and bring it in line with everything else.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#273256: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:25:48 AM

[up] [up][up][up]I mean, you could argue everything should be moved to 21/18/##. I do find weird the US has three ages of majority for some reason.

Anyway, I see no actual reason for why there should be a minimum age of marriage if pedophilia laws were applied to it. So, 16 years old should be able to marry, as long it is to other teens, and not to a much older guy.

But I also think marriage should be much deemphasized overall.

Edited by Heatth on Mar 2nd 2019 at 4:29:35 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#273257: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:26:29 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] I can only speak for Germany. I got the impression that in the US there are still a lot of people who are at least engaged before living together.

[up][up][up][up] You are aware that the age for both drinking and sexual relationships are way lower in a lot of countries than in the US?

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:27:07 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#273258: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:31:04 AM

Most states used to set voting at 21. Then during the Vietnam draft all the 18-21 year olds got pissed that they could be drafted and forced to get shot at but not vote. So there was a huge push to lower the voting age, and then there was a constitutional amendment, the 26th.

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#273259: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:31:38 AM

It's a bit of a nebulous area. You're legally an adult at 18, but I can guarantee that at 18 I sure as fuck wasn't ready to live a responsible, well-informed life. In many ways I was still a teenager and not ready for the realities of choice even though I was ''technically' a legal adult in the eyes of everyone else. 16-year-olds just don't have the life experience and emotional/mental maturity to decide "Yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with this person," and a lot of harmful thought is tied back to treating kids as adults.

Way back in the day, the "teen" stage didn't exist. You were a child, and then at about 14 you were an adult, and expected to work a trade and contribute to society just like all of the older adults around you. Speaking of marriage though, only nobility or the wealthy tended to marry relatively young to cement political interests. Everyone else had to wait until they had their lives together and a stable income to even think about looking for a partner. The average age of marriage for common/poor men was around 25 or so, iirc. Women just a little younger at around 19ish to 22, because the idea of being a "spinster" that nobody would want if you got too old was looming over their heads.

The idea of "have to stick together no matter what" is a holdover from the country's religious roots. Divorce being seen as a failure is still one of those holdovers as well. It was an idyllic, Godly duty to stay even if you were miserable every second of the day, because "till death do you part." If things were hard, you just stuck it out and made it work, or hid it from polite society and pretended everything was fine. We've progressed socially, but that idea is still ingrained in peoples' minds subconsciously.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#273260: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:36:28 AM

There are laws against forced marriages - on the state level as they are not within the enumerated powers of Congress - but the issue here is marriage in general.

@Heath: I'd be a little wary of coupling age of marriage with age of consent laws - that's how the laws about sexual relationships are usually called even if as I am noticing they often have nothing to do with consent - as someone proposed above; a marriage is a long term committment and a bond that regular sex is not, so it's more reasonable to put a stricter rule for marriages than for sex. Moreover there is a lot of inbuilt redundancy between rape laws and age of consent laws, whereas there is no such thing for age of marriage legislation.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Mar 2nd 2019 at 8:44:42 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#273261: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:43:43 AM

Trump Mocks Sessions' Southern Accent in CPAC Speech

Not that I have sympathy for Sessions but accent mocking is in pretty poor taste. Also, considering Trump's base of support, I'd think you wouldn't actually want to go down that particular line of mockery.

But then again, considering how his base is, Its Okay As Long As Trump Does It would most likely be in affect along with everything else.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#273262: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:52:49 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#273263: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:55:53 AM

There are people who are in their thirties and have still now grown up, and there are people who emancipate at 16 and are perfectly able to look after themselves.

But it does make sense to have at least the same age restrictions for marriage you have for sexual relationships. If the state things that a teen is too young to be able to have a consensual relationship at 16, it doesn't make sense that marriage would be considered okay.

[up] This isn't the "complain about other tropers at every opportunity" topic either. If you have a problem with my posts, you can holler to the mods. Or PM me. For the record, it wasn't even an argument, it was a random observation in reaction to someone saying that marriage is overrated.

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 2nd 2019 at 12:00:08 PM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#273264: Mar 2nd 2019 at 11:58:23 AM

Eh, I see Marriage the same way you sign a contract in that specific aspect. It has, legally speaking, massive repercussions to your status and life and thus should only be able to be enterred when you have full legal agency over yourself.

"You can reply to this Message!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#273265: Mar 2nd 2019 at 12:00:39 PM

As noted before, I'd be somewhat wary of making one age for everything. It's probably going to be too low for some things and too high for others.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#273266: Mar 2nd 2019 at 12:02:11 PM

Personally? I feel a stacked approach has its merits but it should be more about giving responsibility to young people instead of keeping rights away.

Like...keep Age of Majority at 18. But make Voting Age 16.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#273267: Mar 2nd 2019 at 12:05:11 PM

You could also stack it bit by bit. Like, you can vote in local elections at age 16 (so that you have two years to observe the direct result) in national elections at age 18.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#273268: Mar 2nd 2019 at 12:20:09 PM

Naw, if you can vote for one you should be able to vote for the other. You are trusted to vote on a Governor then you should be trusted to vote on POTUS.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#273269: Mar 2nd 2019 at 1:55:46 PM

16-year-olds just don't have the life experience and emotional/mental maturity to decide "Yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with this person,"

This is why I say the importance of marriage should be greatly underemphasized. To me marriage shouldn't be, at all, expected to be a life long bound. It should just be a close bound to live together for as long as it last, with the expectation and acceptance that it could end after a few years.

To me, the current predominant view of marriage is, frankly, toxic. It incentives people to keep going long past it is health. Because divorce is seem as a failure, because marriage is seem to be meant forever. Things should be more fluid and casual. If it lasts forever, good. If it didn't, still good if it ended well.

My father married at 20, my aunt at 18. And they both divorced, but their marriage was good while it lasted and they kept good relations with their exes. And then they both married again, and divorced again, until their latest marriage, which is still going.

So, yeah, I don't think marrying young is, in itself, the problem. The problem is the institucion of marriage itself. It shouldn't be as final as it is made to be.

PS: @Swan, you talked about living together but, you see, to me there shouldn't be a sharp division between that and marriage. In fact, over here, if a couple lives together for long enough (a few years, don't remember exactly), they automatically gain a status similar to marriage.

Edited by Heatth on Mar 2nd 2019 at 7:03:38 AM

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#273270: Mar 2nd 2019 at 2:52:39 PM

Bernie held a kickoff rally in Brooklyn. Reports are saying upwards to 20,000 people in attendance, which is far larger than the one he held in Burlington back in 2015.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#273271: Mar 2nd 2019 at 3:03:38 PM

That fundamentally changes the definition of marriage then. Maybe it's me as a married person but it is a bequeathing of your assets and permanent marking as a person as a family member.

Yes, a lot of times its rushed into.

But its meant to be a sign of great devotion.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#273272: Mar 2nd 2019 at 3:05:35 PM

What's the the point of marriage if it's not meant to be a significant commitment?

Oh really when?
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#273273: Mar 2nd 2019 at 3:05:46 PM

[up][up][up] To be fair, Brooklyn is NYC, and Burlington...is not. Its a small city, or you could say its a very big town.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Mar 2nd 2019 at 6:07:30 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#273274: Mar 2nd 2019 at 3:07:32 PM

[up][up] Well, it also has a lot of legal implications.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#273275: Mar 2nd 2019 at 3:45:20 PM

[up][up][up] Aside from the legal implications the couple is still making a commitment to live and make a life together. Just because there is the acknowledgement that it might end someday it doesn't make it not significant. A relationship didn't need to be forever to be important.

And, I mean, it is not like most marriage are eternal. My point is that there should be a better acknowledgement of the fact it is quite possible, if not probable, that it will end one day. And make peace with that, to further better relationships and to prevent bad marriages to drag on just for the sake of the commitment.

Again, I feel strongly that divorce shouldn't be viewed as a failure. And as long as a marriage is meant, by definition, to be eternal, that is all a divorce can be


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