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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#273026: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:43:19 AM

I am rolling my eyes every time someone mentions redemption.

The only time's redemption has been mentioned has been to argue against it.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:43:44 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#273027: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:44:36 AM

The important factor here is that Cohen knows damn well what is going to happen to Manafort. He has no incentive to lie anymore.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#273028: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:44:39 AM

I think the only thing that could make Cohen slightly sympathetic is the idea that while he was on board with all of the corruption, etc., he didn't go in expecting Trump to be a Politically Incorrect Villain, and was genuinely opposed to that, when he learned about that side of Trump.

This is certainly how Cohen is trying to present himself. I think it's... possible that this is true to some extent, as I don't know if Cohen (or anyone) really expected Trump's infamous "fine people on both sides" common regarding Charlottesville.

But like this was far from the first sign of Trump being super-racist and Cohen knew and worked for him for years without protest. And while I'm not sure of examples off-hand, I'm positive that Cohen publicly defended Trump's bigotry at various points.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#273029: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:46:27 AM

Yeah, that's BS. Cohen was in every step of the way as Trump was running his housing projects in a nakedly racist fashion. Maybe he had moral problems with it, but the money and influence drowned those out quite thoroughly.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:47:40 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#273030: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:50:48 AM

If Cohen has any sincere qualms I doubt it was about the racism or corruption, both were things that Trump has been engaging in for quite a while.

Rather I think it doesn't beggar belief that he was fine with "harmless" business corruption but became uncomfortable with the political crimes. After all, there's a reason that Trump's crimes never attracted significant attention from law enforcement before he became President, they were very much the norm. But political crimes are not the norm and thus change things, hence why I would not be surprised if he's sincere.

Which, as I've said, doesn't make him a good person. It just means he's a bad person who has some standards. No redemption involved.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#273031: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:52:51 AM

Cohen only turned on Trump after he was indicted by law enforcement and presented with the litany of his offenses. It was the prospect of spending the rest of his natural life in prison that got him to flip... and, ironically, Trump attacking his character after it leaked that he might do so.

Who knows; he may have some kind of newly discovered moral backbone, but I doubt it. His public repentance is pure PR as far as I am concerned.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:54:33 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#273032: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:53:19 AM

[up][up]Although The Mafiya =/ Putin and his circle (although there's definitely some overlap), Cohen himself had longstanding Russian mob ties, such that I'm not even sure I'd give him that much credit.

Edited by Hodor2 on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:53:32 AM

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#273033: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:54:55 AM

@HailMuffins: In order:

  1. A supermajority in the US Congress is 66% of the vote, rather than any value that is above 50% of the vote.

  2. The formula that I should have used is number of yes-votes / total number of voting congresspeople, with total number of voting congresspeople obtainable simply by summing yes-votes with no-votes.

  3. What I actually did is simply divide the no-votes by the yes-votes... which is a nonsensical operation when it comes calculating anything vote-related, as it doesn't give any useful result whatsoever.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#273034: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:57:44 AM

The only time's redemption has been mentioned has been to argue against it.

I didn't mean in the thread, I mean during the hearing. Norton or Maloney mentioned it and Cohen has mentioned it more than once.

Edit: The GOP are a bit broken record on attacking the witness's credibility.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:06:10 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#273035: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:04:33 AM

Everyone thinks of themselves as the hero of the story. That's why our judiciary doesn't run on the honor system.

Everyone who does something shitty says, "It's okay that I did what I did. If you'd just hear me out, you'd understand why it's okay. If you just see things from my point of view, you'll realize that I was justified."

It's the job of other people to look at them and go, "Yeah, I get that you think you were right. But you weren't. You are, in fact, a garbage person."

Think of it like writing. Every writer thinks that what he just wrote is the hottest shit around, but that's why peer editing is so important. A trial judge and jury is the editorial staff on civilization.

People tend to be overly forgiving of themselves more than anyone else.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:05:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#273036: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:05:54 AM

Every writer thinks that what he just wrote is the hottest shit around

Now THAT's not true at all [lol][lol][lol]

Edit: wow, so my first impression of Gosar is 'what an unpleasant piece of work' and then I find out he promoted a Charlottesville "false flag" conspiracy theory...

Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:08:55 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#273037: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:41:16 AM

[up]That's the problem with starting low and then discovering you're going to need a digger. tongue

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#273038: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:43:16 AM

As a UK resident, I'm not that familiar with relatively rank and file US politicians (if we consider members of congress rank and file) - these Republicans have been quite eye-opening...

Edit: here we go again, Michael Cloud (REP) opening with essentially 'for the record, this guy is going to jail for being a lying liar who lies'.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:49:19 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#273039: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:54:05 AM

Raskin said the Republicans are upset that Cohen stopped lying for Trump.

What a burn!

Going on about Cohen possibly get a book deals.

Edited by NoName999 on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:34:52 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#273041: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:06:09 PM

I'm inclined from all I've read to believe that Cohen is the ultimate sleazy lawyer BUT there is one Sympathy for the Devil motive in that he expected Trump to not turn on him completely after decades of work together.

But Trump is an aversion of Even Evil Has Loved Ones.

That betrayal at least stung a little.

But it's a small violin. Like toy size.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:06:25 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#273042: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:08:07 PM

It may be worth a toy violin for Cohen, but it broke him into cooperating with the government, so it's a really big deal in the grand scheme.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#273043: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:09:43 PM

[up][up][up]

Thank you very much for that link, because that's the stuff I was waiting for - concrete evidence!

Edited by ironballs16 on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:09:53 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#273044: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:11:29 PM

[up] You're welcome. I got it from a live blog/forum What the Fuck Just Happened Today has been doing over the hearing

https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/t/michael-cohens-public-testimony-the-slow-liveblog/4407/36

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273045: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:35:07 PM

Is there an archive of the full hearing anywhere?

i'm tired, my friend
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273047: Feb 27th 2019 at 1:53:35 PM

Good grief, the Republicans were so desperate to spin this hearing as some sort of Democrat conspiracy to take down Trump.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:04:39 AM

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#273048: Feb 27th 2019 at 2:00:41 PM

This is a view into the Alternate Reality where the Republicans sided with Nixon.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#273049: Feb 27th 2019 at 2:01:58 PM

Meadows throwing a fit because he thought Tlaib called him a racist. Good grief.

Edited by NoName999 on Feb 27th 2019 at 2:02:55 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#273050: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:04:31 PM

Pretty much every Republican so far has been raging because their spin isn't working.

i'm tired, my friend

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