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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
You're not going to finish this before class, the good stuff's not even started.
Edit: Jordan's angle seems to be that Cohen did reprehensible stuff to help himself as much as he did to protect Trump. Basically, Cohen is a liar with a habit of lying, he's lying now about Trump to help himself.
Edit: Now Jordan is implying that this is Cohen's revenge for not getting a White House job. Cohen isn't having it.
Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 27th 2019 at 4:08:36 PM
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."Couple of side things:
"Exclusive: House panel seeks to depose Trump tax, ethics attorneys" - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-lawyer-exclusive/exclusive-house-panel-seeks-to-depose-trump-tax-ethics-attorneys-idUSKCN1QG1WZ
Ocasio-Cortez: ‘There’s a hostage situation going on’ in the GOP
The freshman lawmaker and self-described democratic socialist told Rolling Stone that “a lot of Republicans” know they should speak out against President Trump, but don’t.
“In the Republican Party, there’s a hostage situation going on,” she told the magazine. “There are a lot of Republicans that know what the right thing to do is — not just on impeachment but on a wide range of issues — and they refuse to speak up.”
Ocasio-Cortez called it “an unacceptable position” for GOP figures not to stand up to the president.
“We’re not in the realm of politics anymore,” she said. "These are not questions of politics. These are questions of society. These are questions of equal treatment. These are questions of civil rights.”
She also said that she would vote to impeach Trump “no question,” but acknowledged that some lawmakers “come from very tough districts where their constituents are torn” on their support for the president, making it difficult to easily commit to voting for impeachment.
She rejected the argument that some lawmakers have different intentions “behind closed doors” despite voting with Trump.
“If they vote the same way, what does it matter?” she said. “I don’t care what’s in your heart if how you are voting is the same as someone who is actually racist.
“I am tired of people saying, 'I’m gonna vote the same way as bigots, but I don’t share the ideology of bigots.' Well, you share the action and the agenda of bigots. We need to hold that accountable.”
In a bit of amusing irony, given today's events, the ad I'm seeing on the Hill reads "You deserve a lawyer you can trust".
AOC speaks truth. If you vote with bigots, if you silently ignore bigots, if you refuse to confront or challenge bigots, you might as well be one.
Edit:
The hypothesis is that many GOP members do think that what Trump and his cronies are doing is bad, but remain silently complicit for fear of losing their seats in primary elections.
Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:12:34 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm kinda in awe of AOC, mostly because she would have been in the same school year as me, and she's so on point when it comes to what she does.
Edit: Mark Green is up, again relying on character assassination and chafing against restrictions designed to stop the Republicans from character assassination, by the looks of it.
Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 27th 2019 at 4:18:24 PM
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."Cohen is scum, but sometimes in the criminal justice world you set scum against scum.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Cohen lives in a world where the person he idolized and willingly committed crimes for turned on him and said he was a scumbag and liar. He's doing this for revenge every bit as much as for a reduced sentence. It's mob rules in Trump world.
Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:23:15 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"There are no good guys here.
It's entirely possible he's sincere, it's one thing to be the personal lawyer of a shady businessman who you have personal loyalty for. Being the lawyer of a President complicates things significantly in that it brings up patriotism and the effect on one's nation.
Like, I'm not saying he's a good person but this myth that bad people can't have principles isn't actually true or particularly mature. I'd find it perfectly plausible that he was fine being fixer on irrelevant crimes but got uncomfortable once we started talking about colluding with hostile powers.
It doesn't mean he's worthy of respect or is any less contemptible, just that ignoring the possibility of sincerity you're pointlessly doing him a disservice. A corrupt person having standards is neither redeeming nor especially crazy.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:29:22 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangJames Comer coming along with 'did Trump make you fiddle your numbers?' - same character assassination tactic. The Minority Members certainly have their playbook sorted out.
![]()
That too, lying might just not be advantageous any more.
The GOP are also letting Jordan do a lot of the work.
Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 27th 2019 at 4:31:39 PM
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."![]()
Cohen did illegal work for his boss for decades. I don't find anything redemptive in coming clean only once you've been caught (and hung out to dry). He can earn a reduced sentence for ratting out his boss, and he can "serve his time" according to the justice system, but none of that changes that he did everything with eyes wide open.
There are no good guys here.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"There are no good guys here.
Did you... read my post?
I mean I literally argued against all of this.
I said it wasn't redemptive and that he wasn't a good guy, just that this view that he can't honestly mean it because he engaged in very different kind of corruption is simplistic and unnuanced. Corrupt people can have standards and bridges too far.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:42:43 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
I guess we are in agreement. I just find the idea that Cohen is coming clean out of some sort of newly discovered ethical and moral standards to be risible.
Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:43:38 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I played that once, a long time ago. Never engaged with the community funnily enough.
On-topic re: Cohen's testimony, is it only me that raises an eyebrow at the 'I may have lied, but I am not a liar' statements? "...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."