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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#272876: Feb 26th 2019 at 12:40:34 PM

[up][up]Reducing the amount of legal troubles for women already being taken advantage of is a plus, even for cases like this.

After all, a lot of the reasons women in positions like those don't come to the police is that they justifiably believe that they'll be arrested for the prostitution.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#272877: Feb 26th 2019 at 12:42:11 PM

[up]

Fair point.

[up][up]

As necessary as that obviously was, it's also pretty obvious how Trump & Co. will spin that particular piece.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#272878: Feb 26th 2019 at 12:44:08 PM

As much as I like the idea of decriminalizing sex work, the timing is rather unfortunate given that the owner of the New England Patriots is being charged with solicitation at a Florida massage parlor in which the women were trafficked from China and forced into sex work to repay their debts - one of the most common forms of modern-day slavery.

I'll point out that "decriminalizing sex work" doesn't mean decriminalizing purchasing sex. So it protects sex workers while keeping the punishments for Johns, which TBH is something I am totally comfortable with.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 26th 2019 at 3:45:14 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#272879: Feb 26th 2019 at 12:44:44 PM

[up][up] Yeah, criminalization of prostitution makes sex trafficking worse, not better.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#272880: Feb 26th 2019 at 12:50:44 PM

[up][up][up]They'll spin anything. "You go high, we go low." There's no point worrying about it.

Sex work should be decriminalized, prostitutes should get to pay taxes and get retirement and social security.

I don't see that Johns, or James, are doing anything wrong either.

Now pimps, on the other hand...

Edited by Oruka on Feb 26th 2019 at 12:53:00 PM

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#272881: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:01:50 PM

[up]Problem is that sex-work, legal or not, is a hot-bed for criminal activity of all stripes, but especially human trafficking. It's why legal sex work is being severely diminished here in Amsterdam.

Well, that, and all the bloody tourists clogging up the inner city to do some window shopping, but that's besides the point.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#272882: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:04:48 PM

Well, to offer a different perspective, the prevailing interpretation in the Marxist circles I frequent is that solicitation of prostitutes is a a form of rape. Essentially, to them, since all labor is coerced, sex work is coerced sex, and therefore is rape, the idea being that if they were offered that money — which they desperately need to survive — in exchange for nothing, they'd take it. But that money is only offered as part of a transaction for sex, so they have sex against perhaps their better judgment.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#272883: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:06:31 PM

Plenty of sex workers would find that condescending as hell and say they’d rather get $50 an hour for sex on their own schedule and terms than $7.25 an hour stocking shelves. I’d link an article by a sex worker, but the tumblr purge deleted her page and all her posts.

Edited by wisewillow on Feb 26th 2019 at 4:07:08 AM

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#272884: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:06:50 PM

I meant to say "Why is the Taliban even in a position to gain that much favorable terms into the treaty?" Like, how did they go from being forced into hiding in caves within the inhospitable mountains to resurging as an actual force that you should seriously take as a legitimate power-player within the country
Partly because the Taliban still has a great deal of local support, and partly because similarly to Vietnam and Korea, we can't take them out without also going to war with the outside government supporting them - Pakistan.
One of the things that city folk don't tend to comprehend is hunters really really like nature. It's the reason their hobby exists and they are strongly for the protection of wilderness.
If you're talking about the kind of people who hunt deer because they like venison (and maybe a nice antler chandelier), sure. If you're talking about the rich guys who travel to Africa to bag a lion or an elephant for the status trophy ...
I don't think he's trying to attract Trump voters. He's had enough "tone-deaf" moments to suggest he actually believes that. Sanders thinks we live in a post-racism world, that any talk of "identity politics" is a distraction from the real issues, and that classist sentiment is what's really keeping minorities down.
To be fair to the guy, I think he is trying to attract Trump voters, and believes that racial inequality is all economic. He's wrong, obviously, but unlike the GOP he's not malicious about it at least.
I watched it with my wife who isn't informed of American politics and she was basically "he reminds me of my grandpa and is just sort of rambling and making promises that are good but I don't know if he can keep." Which I think encapsulates his appeal and his flaws.
That's a pretty good description of Sanders. Probably also of Biden, if he joins the race.
I still find it amazing that the President is capable of vetoing a legislative bill whose explicit function is to tell the President to eat a dick.
This is the kind of statement I want to hear on the campaign trail. [lol]
Mitch having to fall back on the filibuster to defend his agenda would be the last nail in the coffin for Republicans' perceived ability to legislate.
Until the GOP actually loses control of the House, Senate, Presidency, and 30+ Governors and state legislatures, it is far too premature to be labeling anything as their "last nail."

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#272885: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:07:59 PM

They could fix that by not exposing the workers on windows like objects, as well as other ostentatious red light district nonsense. Those aesthetic problems are easy to regulate away.

As for the rest, like I said, criminalize pimping. The problem here is the intersection of capitalist exploitation with sexism and unenforced foreign worker laws.

[up][up] and [down]you hit the nail on the head.

Edited by Oruka on Feb 26th 2019 at 1:13:02 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#272886: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:10:43 PM

Regardless of whether or not legalization is worth it, I think it should be clear that decriminalization of sex work (i.e the act of being a sex worker) is necessary.

No sex worker should be thrown in jail because they reported their rape.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 26th 2019 at 4:14:53 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#272887: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:14:04 PM

Sex workers can just deny service if they so wish.

If the client will take the no that's another 500, but the fact that sex work is a crime means that taking legal action in this case might not be an option to the lady, so I only see profits here.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#272889: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:21:08 PM

Sadly it's less obvious then one might think, the US is incredibly hypocritical about sex and how we treat the people who engage in sex work sad

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#272890: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:23:51 PM

The problem is that if the Johns can still face legal action, the sex workers are reluctant to come forward because they might lose customers.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#272891: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:25:24 PM

If they're facing legal action for "acting in a manner that the workers would dislike to the point of reporting them," wouldn't that be a feature, not a bug? You would want to weed out the dangerous clientele.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#272892: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:26:52 PM

Here’s the thing though- arresting all Johns makes it much harder for sex workers to vet their clients, because clients will be reluctant to provide the necessary info.

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#272893: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:27:36 PM

[up][up][up]That's true of any private enterprise. Generally, rape cases should be treated with a lot of discretion and confidentiality. And, if that's violated, prostitutes should be allowed to sue the client for damages.

However, honestly, good riddance to any client that goes away for fear of being accused of rape. At best, they assume bad faith, at worst, they're knowingly considering they might rape you.

[up][up][nja]Beat me to it!

[up]That too.

[down]What's up with that?

Edited by Oruka on Feb 26th 2019 at 1:29:37 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#272894: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:27:54 PM

@Fruitprok, Or worse, face retaliation and have the to deal with the police and their famously hostile attitude to sex workers.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Feb 26th 2019 at 5:28:37 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#272895: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:34:06 PM

Also, general reminder that cops are statistically much more likely to be domestic abusers than the average person. So even setting aside historical bad treatment of sex workers by cops, there’s that as well.

Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24 percent, indicating that domestic violence is two to four times more common among police families than American families in general.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#272896: Feb 26th 2019 at 1:45:52 PM

There are also far more mundane issues to consider such as the privacy of sex worker and client, that's been a major issue in Switzerland where prostitution is legal but law enforcement (understandably) wants to monitor it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#272897: Feb 26th 2019 at 2:00:50 PM

[up][up][up][up]

"What's up with that?!" - a combination of Power Corrupts and the thin blue line - other officers will be more willing to cover up the "indiscretions" of a fellow officer than they would for a non-officer. A drunk-driving incident here, a petty-theft daughter there... it adds up, but they don't consider it.

And yeah, the "workers need to vet their Johns" part is why the SESTA was controversial, as it also shut down sites that sex workers used to avoid being out on the street, as well as communities in which they relayed information about problematic clients.

Edited by ironballs16 on Feb 26th 2019 at 5:04:45 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#272898: Feb 26th 2019 at 2:11:17 PM

Another problem with SESTA-FOSTA is that it has led to a LGBT-phobic pattern of enforcement. And that, if memory serves, is a common problem with such laws in general.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#272900: Feb 26th 2019 at 2:56:26 PM

Witness tampering and intimidation. Textbook. Jesus f***ing Christ.


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