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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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This exactly. The problem is that they no longer have exactly what their grandfather stole; rather, they enjoy centuries of social and economic privilege derived from the proceeds of that theft.
Edited by Fighteer on Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:24:47 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I mean, there's not really much land handing over happening if they decided that actually, this is reservation land. You'd basically be announcing that the entire Tulsa metropolitan area is actually not under the control of Oklahoma. Which would be... you know. A problem.
... yes? And? The majority of the focus is on reparations for slavery.
Edited by RainehDaze on Feb 22nd 2019 at 9:27:51 AM
Then maybe choose more effective means of fighting structural discrimination?
I don't really see any evidence that reparations are especially practical, like, if white people are uncomfortable with reparations but not with criminal justice reform then surely the latter is better to advance the interests of African-Americans?
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
And if their grandfather had splurged it all, leaving them with effectively nothing?
That's the part with any idea of direct reparations that tends to rankle people (myself included) - I had ancestors that fought on both sides of the Civil War. If one of them had held slaves, would that be balanced out by the ones that fought to free them? Or weighed heavier by the ones that sought to keep them enslaved? Aside from that, after that many generations, how spread out would that wealth be? There's a shitload of logistics to consider when it comes to that idea, whereas the idea of the US government issuing them sits a bit easier. Except then you'd have the same asses that try claiming that "welfare queens" are a rampant issue decrying that and highlighting situations in which wealthy black people (e.g. Ben Carson) might get reparations while already being very well-off - or conversely, what if he was denied them because he was well-off? That shit still happened to his ancestors, regardless of how he, personally, is doing.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"It still makes things better and unlike reparations it's very popular
.
Also, can we please state what we actually mean by reparations? Because I have yet to hear anyone (including the candidates in question) actually propose anything specific.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:31:24 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
I'll admit, when I hear the word, I immediately think of that old Family Guy episode in which Cleveland got direct reparations from the (now poor) descendants of the family that had enslaved his ancestor - said reparation being something like $5 and a coupon, because that was all the person could actually afford, while Peter's ancestor was enslaved by the still-wealthy Pewterschmidt's, so he got a boatload of cash.
And here's something worth asking (and may already have been asked/answered in the past few pages) - have there been studies about whether African-Americans actually want reparations to happen? I wouldn't doubt it if there have been, but I had a bit of a White Man's Burden moment pop into my head, so I'd like that assuaged. I've tried Googling, but the Rasmussen poll was behind a paywall (as well as talking about Maxine Waters for some reason), and I'm not sure I've found one that narrowed it down by ethnicity in terms of support/opposition. The Rasmussen one claimed 70% opposition.
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Care to clarify your stance on how they should be done, then? Because that was in answer to Fourth's question.
Edited by ironballs16 on Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:54:42 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"This four year old poll
and this two year old one
see a slight majority support for payments or "incentives" that could be considered part of "reparations" among African Americans. I suspect though that the reparation question hasn't received much salience so far and thus polling is thin.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Feb 22nd 2019 at 10:46:47 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI pay absolutely no attention to social media whatsoever, so I couldnt care any less what a group of self-proclaimed supporters of anyone say or claim. I have my own reasons for respecting Bernie Sanders, even though these days I tend to lean toward Warren or Harris.
@Fighteer: "Take a look at this infographic by Forbes from 2017, which shows median wealth by race in the U.S.
I see no reasonable way to bring the black and Hispanic lines on that chart up to the same level as the white ones without lowering the white ones a bit — in a relative sense, if not necessarily absolute."
Reducing relative disparity is fine- most people don't care as long as their own family's standard of living improves. They are eve willing to pay taxes toward it, as long as they can see that the outcome benefits society as a whole, at least in the long run. That's how social programs get funded, after all. The idea behind the "War on Poverty", though it had problems of it's own, was rather popular for a long time.
I think it would be trivial to make a case that reducing racial economic and other disparities benefits society as a whole, but that's not what people are thinking of when the debate "Reparations."
(BTW- with regard to that article, I had forgotten by just how much middle class households had lost purchasing power after the 2008 financial crisis. No wonder so many of them are feeling so pissed off even now).
Edited by DeMarquis on Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:50:10 AM
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.![]()
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I’m not proposing anything. There’s a variety of reparations proposals, but literally none of them hinge on “impose tax only on white people; hand money to black people.”
I would think that a one time wealth/property tax with the proceeds distributed to all persons, regardless of race, with income and/or property under a certain amount would be most effective. It would also help with generational poverty in indigenous communities, Latino communities, and even poor white communities.
But that’s literally wealth redistribution so conservatives would shriek their heads off.
Edited by wisewillow on Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:55:09 AM
Reparations should be paid by the US government because it was the US government because it was the US government who legalized slavery.
Mind you, in Kentucky, the usual thing about welfare is that a bunch of "I'm not racist" white people get angry when black people get welfare but are happy to accept their own checks.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 22nd 2019 at 2:02:25 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Mind you, in Kentucky, the usual thing about welfare is that a bunch of "I'm not racist" white people get angry when black people get welfare but are happy to accept their own checks.
What a silly distinction, the US government gets its funds through taxation. So, of course, it would be paid by the US government, that doesn't really say much either way.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
Makes me think of a political cartoon my mom has hanging on her fridge from years ago, in which a farmer just finishes painting "Get that Socialist out of the White House!" on the side of his barn before heading into town to cash his Farm Subsidy check.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Taxes which don't necessarily all come from US citizens and certainly could go to other projects which will go to others. The idea that slavery reparations will be waste compared to dozens of other projects is ridiculous.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

You’re not finding the grandchild guilty of theft; you’re asking them to give back what their grandfather stole.