Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
This brings up a good point, that while there may be a report coming, it might not be “The Report”
The answer to that is clearly no. He’s still chasing testimony from Roger Stone flunkie Andrew Miller and from some foreign owned corporation (and has been chasing that, in the case of Miller, since last May).
Given that Miller already interviewed with the FBI for two hours and the foreign company is, by dint of being foreign, a no-brainer target for NSA, it’s quite likely Mueller knows what he’s getting from both of these entities. He just needs Miller on the record, so he can’t change his story to protect Stone, and needs to parallel construct the information from the foreign company. So it’s possible that as soon as Mueller gets both of these things, he’ll finish up quickly (meaning The Report could be soon). But there is no way that’ll happen by next week, in part because whatever the DC Appeals Court says in the Andrew Miller case, the loser will appeal that decision.
So it’s virtually certain that The Report is not coming by next week.
That’s likely to happen, but if it does, it’ll just be a partial report.
That’s because both Mueller and the defense have to submit a sentencing memo in Paul Manafort’s DC case Friday. As I noted back in November when Mueller’s prosecutors declared Manafort to have breached his plea agreement, this sentencing memo presents an opportunity for Mueller to “report” what they’ve found — at least with respect to all the criminal actions they know Manafort committed, including those he lied about while he was supposed to be cooperating — without anyone at DOJ or the White House suppressing the most damning bits. DOJ won’t be able to weigh in because a sentencing memo is not a major action requiring an urgent memo to the Attorney General. And the White House will get no advance warning because Big Dick Toilet Salesman Matt Whitaker is no longer in the reporting chain.
So, as noted, Mueller will have an opportunity to lay out:
The details of Manafort’s sleazy influence peddling, including his modus operandi of projecting his own client’s corruption onto his opponents. The fact that Manafort already pled guilty to conspiring with a suspected Russian intelligence asset
The details about how Manafort — ostensibly working for “free” — got paid in 2016, in part via kickbacks from a Super PAC that violated campaign finance law, possibly in part by Tom Barrack who was using Manafort and Trump as a loss-leader to Middle Eastern graft, and in part by deferred payments or debt relief from Russian-backed oligarchs Manafort’s role and understanding of the June 9 meeting, which is a prelude of sorts to the August 2 one.
The dates and substance of Manafort’s ongoing communications with suspected Russian intelligence asset Konstantin Kilimnik, including the reasons why Manafort shared highly detailed polling data on August 2, 2016 that he knew would be passed on to his paymasters who just happened to be (in the case of Oleg Deripaska) a central player in the election year operation
The ongoing efforts to win Russia relief from the American Ukrainian-related sanctions by pushing a “peace” plan that would effectively give Russia everything it wants Manafort’s ongoing discussions with Trump and the Administration, up to and including discussions laying out how if Manafort remains silent about items two through six, Trump will pardon him
Because those items are all within the substance of the crimes Manafort pled guilty to or lied about during his failed cooperation, they’re all squarely within the legitimate content of a sentencing memo. And we should expect the sentencing memo in DC to be at least as detailed as the EDVA one; I expect it, like the EDVA one and like Manafort’s plea deal, will be accompanied by exhibits such as the EDVA one showing that Manafort had bank accounts to the tune of $25,704,669.72 for which suspected Russian intelligence asset Konstantin Kilimnik was listed as a beneficial owner in 2012. Heck, we might even get to see the polling data Manafort shared, knowing it was going to Russia, which was an exhibit to Manafort’s breach determination.
The only thing limiting how much detail we’ll get about these things (as well as about how Manafort served as a secret agent of Russian backed Ukrainian oligarchs for years) is the ongoing sensitivities of the material, whether because it’s grand jury testimony, SIGINT collection, or a secret Mueller intends to spring on other defendants down the road.
It’s the latter point that will be most telling. As I noted, thus far, the silences about Manafort’s cooperation are — amazingly — even more provocative than the snippets we learned via the breach determination. We’ll likely get a read on Friday whether Mueller has ongoing equities that would lead him to want to keep these details secret. And the only thing that would lead Mueller to keep details of the conspiracy secret is if he plans to charge it in an overarching conspiracy indictment.
We may also get information, however, that will make it far more difficult for Trump to pardon Manafort.
So, yeah, there’s a report coming out this week. But it’s not The Report.
agreed. I’m pretty sure the court filings even mentioned that there were other conspirators who hadn’t had charges brought up against them/unsealed yet.
Not to mention that mysterious subpoena with a foriegn state owned company, that was connected to the Special Counsels office. If nothing else, I think they would at least want to have that for the record, even if they think they already know what they will find.
Edited by megaeliz on Feb 20th 2019 at 5:32:22 AM
White House Panel Will Study Whether Climate Change Is a National Security Threat. It Includes a Climate Denialist. – The Pentagon and federal intelligence agencies have said that climate change is a threat. Now, the White House is planning a panel to study whether or not that is true.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/climate/climate-national-security-threat.html
Pentagon chief briefing irks lawmakers, draws expletives from Lindsey Graham – The episode highlighted Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan's increasingly strained relationship with Capitol Hill two months after he replaced Jim Mattis.
I think it's even simpler than this, they most likely do not believe in Global Climate Change.
Never underestimate the power of willful ignorance as motivated by greed and selfishness.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangThe Republican electoral machine encourages both true believers and unfettered reprobates, which camp individual climate change denialists fall into doesn't really matter. The effect is the same.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 20th 2019 at 7:10:03 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangBut Vice News reported Tuesday that Trump’s defeat was even more complete and humiliating than many realized: The bill he signed essentially designated “no-wall zones,” specific areas on the southern border where he is forbidden from using any of the funds Congress gave him to build a wall.
The legislation Trump signed includes just $1.37 billion for pedestrian fencing, not $5.7 billion to build a big wall like Trump wanted.
But the bill Trump signed specifically prohibits the government from using even those funds to build fencing in designated sections of Texas: the Santa Ana Wildlife Refuge, the Bentsen-Rio Grande Valley State Park, the La Lomita Historical Park, the National Butterfly Center, and in specific regions of the Lower Rio Grande Valley National Wildlife Refuge.
This is a big setback for Trump, who has been insisting since the early days of his presidential campaign that a wall has to span the entire southern border in order to be effective.
“I will build the best wall, the biggest, the strongest, not penetrable, they won’t be crawling over it, like giving it a little jump and they’re over the wall,” Trump told supporters in April 2015.
In March of 2016, Trump said “a thousand miles” of wall would need to be built to do the job right. And in January of this year, he insistedthat “between checkpoints,” where no walls are built, is where “tremendous problems” can occur.
“We got five protections that were so important,” Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-TX) said in describing the steps he took to make sure the legislation defended the land.
In some cases, action had been taken to begin construction in the five areas now protected by the spending bill. In 2017, the National Butterfly Center posted video of the first phase of wall construction, highlighting survey stakes and workers with chainsaws near the property.
Trump was forced to sign the legislation after losing badly in his political confrontation with Democrats, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, over shutting down the government. Millions of Americans sufferedthanks to his obstinance as federal workers went unpaid.
To avoid another public black eye for his already unpopular administration, Trump signed the bill and accepted provisions that handcuff him.
As a last resort, Trump is now trying to invoke a “national emergency,” so he can steal money from projects like building military homes to build his wall. There too he is facing massive opposition — and multiple lawsuits, one from at least 16 states and others from advocacy groups, with potentially more on the way.
Trump isn’t getting his wall. His shutdown to get the wall didn’t work. And now he has been forced to sign legislation specifically designating no-wall zones.
The only avenue he might have left is his dubious “emergency” declaration, which is also facing massive legal challenges on multiple fronts.
Trump just keeps on losing.
Edited by kkhohoho on Feb 20th 2019 at 6:16:20 AM
Supreme Court Limits Civil Asset Forfeiture, Rules Excessive Fines Apply To States
I'm really glad that Timbs v. Indiana came down with a unanimous condemnation of Civil Asset Forfeiture. It's something we've needed for a while.
![]()
Don’t be such a buzzkill. It’s still a fantastic win. The 8th amendment is finally incorporated. Civil forfeiture is disproportionately used to rob people of color and poor people; this is great.
Although, note that Gorsuch and Thomas wrote concurrences arguing the 8th should be incorporated through the privileges and immunities clause, rather than the due process clause.
The due process clause applies to everyone in the US.
The privileges and immunities clause only covers citizens.
Edited by wisewillow on Feb 20th 2019 at 7:32:48 AM
Although, note that Gorsuch and Thomas wrote concurrences arguing the 8th should be incorporated through the privileges and immunities clause, rather than the due process clause.
The due process clause applies to everyone in the US.
The privileges and immunities clause only covers citizens.
My apologies.
Ironically I was actually trying to point out that the Supreme Court is not above us all and that the opinion of the general public matters.
Clearly, I didn't convey that properly.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangSome antivaxer idiot brought their child in to visit a relative's child at the children's lukemia ward at a friend of mine's local hospital in Florida. Several children who WERE recovering from cancer are now dead of measles.I'm normally against the death penalty, but...
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.You’re fine; civil forfeiture is broadly unpopular, as it angers the left for being abusive of civil rights, especially of Po C and poor people, while libertarians hate it because it’s the government taking private property.
And it was surprising that Roberts assigned RBG to write the majority opinion; a rare show of deference to assign her such an important case (an amendment hadn’t been incorporated since 2010, when the 2nd amendment was incorporated, in an otherwise awful pro-gun ruling).
I’ve been delighted about the decision all day, so I was just a little touchy that I thought you were brushing it aside.
Edited by wisewillow on Feb 20th 2019 at 7:54:12 AM

At the very least I recall the Senate committee said there was no direct, smoking gun link of collusion between Trump and Russia. Though I believe there's circumstantial evidence aplenty.