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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#271976: Feb 19th 2019 at 6:56:53 AM

[up][up][up] Yeah, but the last serious socialist political figure in the US was Upton Sinclair. Mc Carthyism did a fucking number.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#271977: Feb 19th 2019 at 6:59:20 AM

The sheer fervor of Sanders supporters is a serious red flag for me. They flood forums and other discussion boards, shilling their man and accusing anyone who expresses doubts about him of bias. No other Democratic candidate gets that treatment. I don't want a cult leader in the Oval Office.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:00:07 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#271978: Feb 19th 2019 at 6:59:29 AM

Silasw - Agreed. Bernie isn't socialist enough.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 19th 2019 at 3:00:01 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#271979: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:01:02 AM

What he is then,a self described socialist?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#271980: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:03:16 AM

Of course Bernie isn't socialist now, but he is important to the American socialist movement by shifting the conversation in their direction. Similar to AOC and Ilhan Omar.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#271981: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:03:33 AM

He has called himself that in the past, possibly for shock factor. He's certainly socialist by America's standards, so Democratic Socialist really, or 'normal left' for Europe.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#271982: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:03:34 AM

@golgothasArisen Socialism did a fine job of discrediting itself even without the help of McCarthy and his thugs. So called "progressives" should stop trying to resurrect a defunct 20th century ideology, and instead tailor their policy objectives to the needs and realities of 21st century society.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:04:19 AM

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#271983: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:04:50 AM

[up]They are.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#271984: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:22:18 AM

@Fighteer: There has hardly been a flood of his supporters on this forum (at least as of now).

The thread itself is still decidedly aganist him in almost all ways.

@Ultimatum: His policies would make him a Social Democrat, which is about as far left as you can get without being full on Socialist.

Now whether he is just a Social Democrat or just hiding his more overt Socialist ideas out of pragmatism is something else altogether.

@Captain Capresae: I sincerely doubt your strange brand of Technocratic Undemocratic Liberalism is the solution to these issues, especially not if you don’t plan to shake up the economic system.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#271985: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:27:14 AM

He also voted against further sanctions against the Russians.

And frankly opposing Russian action should be the centerpoint of our foreign policy at this point in time.

For context, I want to add to this that the sanctions vote in question was specifically endorsed and voted on as retribution against Russia for meddling in the 2016 election; a campaign that we have since learned had three prongs, not just the one. Russia pushed propaganda to support not only Donald Trump but also Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein.

I also want to add that this sanctions bill passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in both houses of the Congress. Sanders was one of only two Senators who voted against it.

Add in his efforts to shift the buck to Clinton - It's not my fault for benefitting from Russian propaganda; it's Hillary's fault for not stopping me from benefitting from Russian propaganda! - when news broke about the greater scope of the meddling and his long-established deep love for the Soviet Union, and it's not a good look for the guy.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 19th 2019 at 8:29:22 AM

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Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#271986: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:32:45 AM

I still don't get where this whole "played favourites" shit came from.

DWS was legitimately trying to force down the number of debates to avoid giving Sanders a platform. A lot of us were seriously pissed at her in this very thread in 2016 because of it.

Clinton wouldn't put up with that and demanded some debate time so she could beat Sanders without charges of a stolen primary. It didn't entirely work, but that's because nothing but Bernie's triumphant coronation as King of the Universe would have been enough for the unicorn chasers.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#271987: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:37:13 AM

I think DWS also wanted to peg Sanders for being Jewish? DWS had a lot of really shady ideas, which is why she was ousted. But Clinton supported basically none of them and few if any ever made it off the ground.

Still, that doesn't stop Bernie Bros from declaring that the Democrats stole the primary from Bernie to this day. Just like the fact that he was creamed well before superdelegates ever even could have entered the picture never stopped Bernie Bros from complaining that superdelegates stole the primary too.

The simple reality is that Bernie (and Russia) gave it his best shot and the primary voters just weren't buying what he was selling.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 19th 2019 at 8:37:56 AM

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#271988: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:38:01 AM

And the Sanders campaign wasn't above appealing to superdelegates themselves when it became clear they didn't have the actual votes to win.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#271989: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:40:46 AM

Even ignoring the delegates he just straight up lost the popular vote by a pretty huge margin too.

Oh really when?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#271990: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:41:14 AM

You know I'm disappointed Bernie's brother didn't stay in American politics otherwise we could have had Ernie and Bernie

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 19th 2019 at 3:41:35 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#271991: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:45:05 AM

[up]Bern and Ernie?

Emails reveal coordination between Chao, McConnell offices
Chao has met at least 10 times with politicians and business leaders from the state in response to requests from McConnell’s office.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/19/mitch-mcconnell-elaine-chao-relationship-1163655

A trove of more than 800 pages of emails sheds new light on the working relationship between Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, one of the most potent power couples in Washington — including their dealings with McConnell supporters from their home state of Kentucky.

Chao has met at least 10 times with politicians and business leaders from the state in response to requests from McConnell’s office, according to documents provided to POLITICO by the watchdog group American Oversight. In some cases, those people later received what they were hoping for from Chao’s department, including infrastructure grants, the designation of an interstate highway and assistance in getting state funds for a highway project — although the documents don’t indicate the meetings led to those outcomes.

The records also do not show how frequently Chao has met with people from outside Kentucky, a state her husband has represented in the Senate since 1985, or how readily she has responded to similar requests from other lawmakers. But at least a dozen of the emails show McConnell’s staff acting as a conduit between Chao and Kentucky political figures or business leaders, some of whom have had prior relationships with the couple.

[down] No, but you get a little Sesame Street reference out of it.

Edited by sgamer82 on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:00:11 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#271992: Feb 19th 2019 at 7:47:46 AM

Doesn't roll off the tongue Ernie and Bernie

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#271994: Feb 19th 2019 at 8:11:48 AM

@Mio: Probably not; it’s a random idiotic idea some biologist came up with after reading some long-form articles on populism. I have absolutely no business having an opinion on how a government or economy should be managed, nor is it practical for me to gain anything more than a superficial understanding about the numerous specialized domains of knowledge relevant to policy-making due to the constraints of time.

Yet our political system asks precisely that of me, and in fact demands it, shaming those who refuse to cast a vote, and thus I keep being drawn back into political conversations like this, trying and failing to kid myself into thinking I’m making informed choices.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:14:02 AM

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#271995: Feb 19th 2019 at 8:15:50 AM

[up][up]Considering the results of the Midterms, I think it's safe to say that that article is just as wrong now as it was then.

Did these people fall asleep in history class during the lectures about the Soviet Union and the Khmer Rouge? Miss the past few years of Venezuelans unable to find medicine, milk or toilet paper?
- I mean, the article lost me at this point, but the rest was much of the same "socialism has been proven to be unworkable" trash talking point and some extra anti-federal government talk at the end, so forgive me if I completely dismiss that article in its entirety.

[up]

I have absolutely no business having an opinion on how a government or economy should be managed
Interesting - why do you say so?

Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 19th 2019 at 4:19:24 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#271997: Feb 19th 2019 at 8:25:26 AM

[up][up] I’m not an economist. (Or a political scientist or a lawyer) My knowledge of how an economy functions is that of someone who took a college level macroeconomics course in high school, aka a complete novice. There’s a huge volume of information out there, but without appropriate mentorship from existing experts I don’t believe it’s possible for a novice to distinguish between the wheat and the chaff, and I’m not in a position to spend four years getting another bachelor’s degree; not when there’s so much good to be accomplished in my own field (which is an educated opinion I’m confident in).

The same problem applies to every policy issue; modern society is immensely complex and relies so much on specialized information that the majority of voters will be hopelessly uninformed about.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:31:46 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#271998: Feb 19th 2019 at 8:27:59 AM

Speaking of Russia Sanctions, I saw this yesterday.

U.S. sanctions delay Russian passenger jet by a year: Rostec CEO

Serial production of Russia’s first post-Soviet mainline commercial aircraft will be delayed by a year due to U.S. sanctions, the head of state-owned industrial conglomerate Rostec said on Monday, Russian news agencies reported.

Russia hopes the MS-21, a twin-engine, medium-range passenger plane, will give Boeing and Airbus a run for their money. Three prototypes have been built and Rostec said on Monday the plane had been set to enter serial production at the end of this year.

But Sergei Chemezov, Rostec’s chief executive, said production would not now start until the end of 2020 due to U.S. sanctions.

The sanctions have cut off imports of components from the United States and Japan needed to make the plane’s wings and part of its tail fin, Russian officials have said previously.

Chemezov said Russia would now have to make the necessary components itself and that would take time.

“Due to the Americans stopping deliveries of composite materials (for the wings) we are moving to make our own composites,” the Interfax news agency cited Chemezov as telling reporters at the IDEX military exhibition in Abu Dhabi.

“The timeline of when we can start serial production is shifting a bit. We were meant to start producing several planes as part of serial production towards the end of this year, but now it will be towards the end of 2020.”

Russia’s Aeroflot has agreed to lease 50 of the new planes and Moscow has said Syria is in talks about buying the new aircraft.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#271999: Feb 19th 2019 at 8:32:55 AM

If we're still talking about Bernie, it should not be forgotten how weak he is on race. From shoving racial justice issues to the wayside in favor of things that affect "ordinary Americans", to slamming a Latina woman's run for local office as "identity politics", to using MLK Day to shade Obama... face it, he's an old white guy, and has old white guy-ish views on race, and one interview with Killer Mike doesn't change that. And, you know, being a black man, that's kinda fuckin' important to me.

So yeah, I'll take the SocDem that actually cares enough about racial justice to tackle it head-on.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:35:06 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#272000: Feb 19th 2019 at 8:44:59 AM

So yeah, I'll take the Soc Dem that actually cares enough about racial justice to tackle it head-on.

Which candidate are you talking about here?

There are really only two or so candidates that I feel confident calling Social Democrats so I’m curious as to who you are referring to.


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