TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271801: Feb 17th 2019 at 11:36:46 AM

Literally in the video posted on Twitter where she talked about it, she made jokes about it. Here's a version of the video on Youtube.

She was laughing about it being controversial and about the "you and me in jail" bit which was humorous because children obviously aren't going to be imprisoned, I don't think the desire to hold parents responsible for failing to ensure their children go to school is monstrous.

Does it pass a cost-benefit analysis? Probably not, but I think it's ridiculous to categorize her as "heartless".

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 17th 2019 at 2:37:49 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#271802: Feb 17th 2019 at 11:36:59 AM

Yikes.

[up]I disagree.

Harris cheerfully recounts the story of sending an attorney from her office to intimidate a homeless single mother whose children were missing school. She smiles as she recalls how she instructed her subordinates to “look really mean” so that the mother would take the threat of jail seriously. In separate footage, Harris mocks those on the left who say things like “build schools, not jails” and “put more money into education, not prisons”, suggesting they are naive sloganeers who do not understand crime prevention.

Here we see the limits of the “prosecutorial mindset”. Like the old slogan “when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,” when all you have is the ability to bring criminal charges, everything looks like a crime.

Harris looked at the problem of perpetual truancy and believed she ought to start locking up parents. A humane progressive looks at the problem and asks: why do absences actually occur? Truancy occurs disproportionately among children whose parents are poor and less-educated, and among children who don’t feel safe at school, who have to work or support their families, who have mental and physical health issues, and who are in unstable living situations.

Given the social reality, the idea of fining or jailing parents over student absences is both cruel and unwise. It targets the poorest and most desperate parents, and it doesn’t actually address the root causes. Even if it succeeds in reducing truancy rates, it inflicts yet more burdens on the most vulnerable people in society. But it’s not even clear that it succeeds even by its own standard, with research suggesting that “although truancy proceedings can increase a child’s school attendance in the short term, answering to a judge for school absence does not help students graduate from high school or avoid crime”.

Edited by wisewillow on Feb 17th 2019 at 2:39:24 PM

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#271803: Feb 17th 2019 at 11:42:39 AM

[up] Yeah, her record on Criminal Justice is...not great. At all.

I personally don't think she's the worst when we've got so many bad options like Gabbard or Biden (preparing or) joining up, but she's certainly not topping my list by a significant margin.

I think I've made enough comments on my opinion on her Trans rights record that bringing it up safely counts as being a broken record, but I'll throw it on the pile anyway.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 17th 2019 at 2:46:20 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#271804: Feb 17th 2019 at 11:43:33 AM

And of course you can't forget how this disproportionately hurts minorities. Which seems to be a reoccurring thing with Harris's policies as prosecutor.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#271805: Feb 17th 2019 at 11:44:18 AM

California has a tried and true history of using criminal law as a club against social problems, from teen pregnancies (allegedly) to truancy and Hathor knows what else. I am deeply unconvinced that it needs a penal code over twice as long as Switzerland's or Germany's.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271806: Feb 17th 2019 at 11:44:32 AM

[up][up][up][up]Oh, that's fairly indefensible.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 17th 2019 at 2:44:46 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#271807: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:02:41 PM

I'd be pretty interested in Harris directly addressing the fears about her record, since they're obviously going to keep coming up.

And better that than all the gross racial stuff.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#271808: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:04:13 PM

Agreed - I hope that someone (Warren, maybe?) really presses her on this during the primary debates.

Oh God! Natural light!
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#271809: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:05:48 PM

Well, speaking of her racial identity, because of course the conversation has to come back to that, her own dad accused her of stereotying Jamaicans as lazy pot smokers:

Professor Donald Harris Kamala Harris’ Jamaican father, has vigorously dissociated himself from statements made on the New York Breakfast Club radio show earlier this week attributing her support for smoking marijuana to her Jamaican heritage. Professor Harris has issued a statement to jamaicaglobalonline.com in which he declares:

“My dear departed grandmothers(whose extraordinary legacy I described in a recent essay on this website), as well as my deceased parents , must be turning in their grave right now to see their family’s name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity being connected, in any way, jokingly or not with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics. Speaking for myself and my immediate Jamaican family, we wish to categorically dissociate ourselves from this travesty.”

Edited by golgothasArisen on Feb 17th 2019 at 2:06:11 PM

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271810: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:15:32 PM

I'd be pretty interested in Harris directly addressing the fears about her record, since they're obviously going to keep coming up.

And better that than all the gross racial stuff.

Agreed.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 17th 2019 at 3:19:49 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#271811: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:16:00 PM

@Blueninja

How long ago was that? Just curious, because I agree it does not look good.

He said that in 2003.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271812: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:20:59 PM

Well, speaking of her racial identity, because of course the conversation has to come back to that, her own dad accused her of stereotying Jamaicans as lazy pot smokers:

She made a silly quip, his usage of 'identity politics' rather clearly suggests that his denouncement is politically motivated.

Also, if you want us to stop going back to her racial identity then the people you should be angry at are the ones who continue to insist that she "isn't black enough" or that she's somehow wrong for marrying a white man.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 17th 2019 at 3:23:26 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#271813: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:22:12 PM

The moment someone uses the words "identity politics" unironically, I take that as a sign I shouldn't be listening to them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271814: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:22:50 PM

The moment someone uses the words "identity politics" unironically, I take that as a sign I shouldn't be listening to them.

Well said.

It's universally used to refer to a strawman of progressives or liberals who just run on race instead of anything else, curiously it's never applied to right-wingers who run on white Christian identity.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 17th 2019 at 3:25:02 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#271815: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:23:43 PM

Why is the headline screaming at me?

i'm tired, my friend
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#271816: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:25:51 PM

Breaking News: A (former) Democrat has been elected Speaker of the Alaska House of Representatives, despite the Majority Party being the Republicans. This was because a Combination of Republicans being unable to pick a leader on their own, the Democrat dropping his Political Affiliation to form a Coalition with Democrats and Republicans, and the Governor of the State (Mike Dunleavy, R) introducing a Budget that would slash so much spending it pissed off even Republicans.

So now, under the Speakership of Bryce Edgmon (Ind.), the Republicans have lost their Trifecta in Alaska (So long as Edgmon's Coalition holds, and it probably will just because of Dunleavy's Budget). It seems that Trump's Republican Party always snatches defeat from Victory...

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#271817: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:27:36 PM

I felt like I was on a roller coaster just reading that.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#271818: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:32:57 PM

I wasn't even sure for a while whether it were Harris's statements that were being complained about.

FWIW, Gov. Gavin Newsom has already endorsed her.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#271819: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:42:50 PM

Agreed - I hope that someone (Warren, maybe?) really presses her on this during the primary debates.

Speaking of which, the party has determined how candidates will qualify for the debates:

  • To register 1 percent or more support in three polls between January 1 and two weeks before the debate. These polls don’t necessarily have to be national polls; public polls in the first four primary and caucus states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and/or Nevada also qualify. But they have to be done by major news organizations or qualifying universities.

Or

  • Candidates can qualify for the debates if they show their campaign has received donations from at least 65,000 unique donors and a minimum of 200 unique donors per state in at least 20 US states.

Edited by Parable on Feb 17th 2019 at 12:46:37 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271820: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:44:44 PM

Interesting, I don't see any obvious problems with that.

If it works properly then it's a good idea to weed out the joke candidates.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#271821: Feb 17th 2019 at 12:47:31 PM

Breaking News: A (former) Democrat has been elected Speaker of the Alaska House of Representatives, despite the Majority Party being the Republicans. This was because a Combination of Republicans being unable to pick a leader on their own, the Democrat dropping his Political Affiliation to form a Coalition with Democrats and Republicans, and the Governor of the State (Mike Dunleavy, R) introducing a Budget that would slash so much spending it pissed off even Republicans.

So now, under the Speakership of Bryce Edgmon (Ind.), the Republicans have lost their Trifecta in Alaska (So long as Edgmon's Coalition holds, and it probably will just because of Dunleavy's Budget). It seems that Trump's Republican Party always snatches defeat from Victory...

Wow, the Alaskan GOP is such an entertaining circus. Anyone got more stories like this?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#271822: Feb 17th 2019 at 5:45:42 PM

Well the primary debates definitely seem to be heating up. I honestly don't know if I'll bother voting so long as nobody outrageous is in the running; the primaries are already over by the time my state votes anyway, and I don't feel very strongly about any of the serious contenders; there's so much economic illiteracy flying around the progressive left right now. We have enough of that shit from the GOP.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 17th 2019 at 8:56:41 AM

StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#271823: Feb 17th 2019 at 5:58:11 PM

More work stories; So I've got another coworker who's pretty liberal, and I get along with him well. We worked together for a while, but now I'm working with another guy who's conservative. These two guys also hang out together, so it's not like they can't get along.

Anyway, this conservative coworker isn't as angry about it as one of my other coworkers, in fact he is fairly calm when he discusses his views, and I've done well to give my counter arguments in turn, as I don't want to say anything without being sure about it. Still, as reasonable as he acts, I find his beliefs to be troubling. I don't know how serious he is, but he seems to think that the USA should just invade Mexico to bring order to this supposed crisis. The guy is really into history, especially wars, but he's only about my age, and I get the distinct feeling he has a kind of armchair general mentality and really doesn't consider the kinds of ramifications this causes, or at the very least seems unconcerned, considering whatever consequences would be worth it.

This guy is also Christian, and his views on climate change seem rather skewed. He isn't outright denying it, but he's very doubtful about scientists because in his mind science is as much based on faith as religion, so therefore he thinks that means scientists don't have any more authority on the matter than him. That's including stuff like the big bang, he believes that science works like theology, assuming certain things on faith to explain how things work, just replacing God with something else. I had to really control myself not to berate him. That is not how good scientists work, and they've proven a alot more than he realizes.

My coworker (and his nephew that used to work there) get super irritated when our immigrant coworkers speak to each other in their native language. It's like they're pissed that they're not included in the conversation, or they think they're keeping secrets. My coworker also really wants to believe that a wall on the border would be effective, and he really believes that gangs and drugs are creating a crisis. He goes out of his way to bring it up. I did my best to explain that the sheer length of the border makes it incredibly inefficient for something so costly, but he thinks it would be worth it. I don't think he's racist, he doesn't like families being separated, but he brings up race sometimes and says he isn't racist. That makes me think he is unconsciously a little racist and is trying to excuse it with what he thinks is reasonable facts.

He hasn't directly said it, but I think he probably voted for Trump. I'm telling this to demonstrate that not everyone on the right is always a raging asshole, but this is how misinformation can be spread, by coming across as seemingly reasonable but not giving the whole truth. Drugs crossing the border may be a problem, but most of the people trying to get in are trying to escape crime, not bring it. Science doesn't just take certain things at faith, it's built on what's been observed and proven to be true. Colonialism fucking sucks for the people getting invaded, no matter how bad their situation might be.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#271824: Feb 17th 2019 at 6:02:59 PM

[up]This guy is the most insidious kind of Trump voter if he is indeed a Trump voter. At least the MAGA hat wearing assholes are easy to spot and you know for certain what they are.

This guy you described? He's the guy who seems reasonable even while saying some truly awful shit. And I'd be willing to bet that he'd flip his shit the instant you called him out by saying that the racist stuff he's saying is, well, racist.

And yes, I think he's a Trump supporter. At the very least, he seems to want the same things that Trump is promising to deliver such as the wall.

Edited by M84 on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:04:13 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#271825: Feb 17th 2019 at 6:04:00 PM

This guy is also Christian, and his views on climate change seem rather skewed. He isn't outright denying it, but he's very doubtful about scientists because in his mind science is as much based on faith as religion, so therefore he thinks that means scientists don't have any more authority on the matter than him.

As someone in academia, this makes my blood boil. It's staggering how people can even think that.


Total posts: 417,856
Top