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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#270851: Feb 10th 2019 at 5:31:03 PM

As a former teacher, LOLOLOLOL to the teachers being well paid comment.

I made $37,500 a year from 2014-2016. We only officially got paid for 40 hours a week, but I was typically at school from 6am-4pm minimum (10 hours; aka 50 hours a week, so I wasn’t being paid for 10+ of those hours).

Yes, you gradually get small raises, and yes, it varies by district and how long you’ve been teaching, but overall teachers are not well paid.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#270852: Feb 10th 2019 at 5:33:11 PM

Noble Senpai of Lost Pause is a reasonable guy, right?

Apparently he made a video about that Crunchyroll original series (something with Spice in the name) whining about feminism (because I guess it stars women with agency who aren't just there to be moeblob damsels?), so I'm gonna say no.

Also, what does it say about me that my opinion on Sargon was immediately sealed (though I still finished the video to get the full picture) when Shaun presented his hypocrisy concerning British Muslims' "responsibility" to decry and report Muslim-identifying terrorists but not really considering over 2000 hate crimes per year (up from 1500-something) that big of an issue because the population they happened in is in the several millions range (i.e. technically less than 1%)?

That just means you dislike anti-Muslim rhetoric.

i'm tired, my friend
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#270853: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:19:45 PM

And of course the real underlying problem is that affluent parents want to give their children an advantage in the competition for socio-economic class.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270854: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:35:58 PM

How in the world is that a problem?

Why in the world wouldn't you want to help your children succeed?

That's like saying children shouldn't be allowed to have parents who save for a college fund.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 6:36:42 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270855: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:45:08 PM

North Carolina Rep. Walter Jones dies at 76 – North Carolina Republican Rep. Walter Jones died on Sunday at age 76, according to a statement on the congressman's website.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/10/politics/walter-jones-north-carolina-dies/index.html


Scoop: More Trump schedules leaked as enraged officials launch internal hunt – The crackdown has not stopped the leaking.

https://www.axios.com/trump-schedule-leaks-4840f751-e663-49c0-b288-2dd39bde9c79.html

Edited by sgamer82 on Feb 10th 2019 at 7:46:12 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#270856: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:49:35 PM

Because upper middle class parents dont want to pay taxes to help some poorer family's children compete with their own kids on the job market.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270857: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:52:18 PM

Because upper middle class parents dont want to pay taxes to help some poorer family's children compete with their own kids on the job market.

All families want to have their children have the best possible advantages.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#270858: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:53:00 PM

[up] [up] Exactly. Pulling your kids from public school to give them “the best” is basically saying screw fixing public schools and screw all your kids peers at the public schools; so long as you got yours who cares.

Suffice to say this is a bit of a rage button for me.

Edited by wisewillow on Feb 10th 2019 at 9:53:19 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270859: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:53:11 PM

The key words, perhaps, being their children.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#270860: Feb 10th 2019 at 6:58:38 PM

Also, if you're the child of affluent parents you already have an advantage.

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270861: Feb 10th 2019 at 7:00:52 PM

And heck, if you're an affluent family in an affluent neighborhood, your public school is probably already a pretty well-funded one.

Disgusted, but not surprised
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#270862: Feb 10th 2019 at 7:02:48 PM

That's correct, which is why I pointed out that the US doesnt really have a public school system, it has neighborhood-funded ones.

My point is that it isnt really about public vs private schools, its about families feeling that they have to compete with each other for their children's economic future.

Edited by DeMarquis on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:04:19 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270863: Feb 10th 2019 at 7:09:59 PM

It's still public since they are funded through tax money. It's just that property taxes from affluent neighborhoods are of course going to be higher than from poorer ones.

Edited by M84 on Feb 10th 2019 at 11:11:04 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
FicMasterFox Since: Jan, 2019
#270864: Feb 10th 2019 at 8:51:10 PM

Well, have any of you kept an eye on the Trump-Russia Investigation by Mueller?

A good thread about it right here: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/intelligence-allegations-against-the-trump-administration-megathread-2-0-its-mueller-time.608953/

... been keeping an eye on it and holy shit, there some crazy ass shit that makes you think reality is being written by a shitty technothriller writer. With Roger Stone being arrested (with him being an evidence destroying and running risk), and the entire investigation going the way of the FBI's mob-busting...

... it'll be interesting to say the least.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270865: Feb 10th 2019 at 9:42:27 PM

Trump is a former mob-affiliated career criminal involved with foreign dictators and The Mafiya after he graduated from possibly killing his former Taj Mahal business partners as well as hundreds of well-known white collar crimes (including just flat out not paying people so he can settle with them for less money after they sue him). His taxes are also complete forgeries and this is all before his foreign agent status.

The problem with the Mueller report won't be if he finds any of the man's hundreds of impeachable offenses as well as previous evil deeds. It'll be if anyone can prosecute him for any of them even post-presidency.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 9:43:14 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270866: Feb 10th 2019 at 9:47:15 PM

Anyway, if you're an affluent family you probably live in an affluent neighborhood with high property values. Meaning the property taxes will be enough to ensure that the local public schools are well-funded and as a result are probably decent ones. If your only concern is that your kid gets a good education, you're already set. Heck, some affluent families move to good neighborhoods specifically because the local public schools have a good reputation.

So families who already have good public schools nearby who still choose to put their kids in private school likely have some ulterior motive for doing so. Sometimes it's something innocuous like special needs, as Silasw mentioned. Sometimes, it's not.

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 2:00:43 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270867: Feb 10th 2019 at 9:56:16 PM

THE HATE YOU GIVE notably shows a working class family sending their daughter to private school as a matter of safety.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#270868: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:07:25 PM

That's not really an argument for anything, Charles. One FICTIONAL family doing that does not refute the larger argument that affluent families are, in general, sending their children to private schools and that this, as a major side effect because of how school funding works in this country, ends up disadvantaging and taking resources away from students in public schools and poorer areas of the country.

I mean really, citing a fictional example in a thread about real people is not going to help your position at all. You couldn't put in the effort to find any examples or data on real people of the working class sending their kids to a private school?

And hell, you want to cite reasons of safety, you're just getting into the fact that we all want them to make public schools safer as well as better equipped to educate. There's a lot of changes needed to help improve our public schools, and favoring things like private and charter schools over public schools is a good way to fuck over the vast majority of the country, because the vast majority of the country simply can't afford to send their kids to private school for any reason.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#270869: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:10:33 PM

Aren't a lot of US private schools religious in nature?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#270870: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:13:11 PM

There are private schools devoted to a religion. Others are more secular.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270871: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:17:55 PM

I'm sorry, I was taking this argument seriously because I assumed that anyone who actually wants to get rid of private schools was half-joking. I now realize some people in this thread were serious.

My bad.

If you actually want arguments against such a prospect then I'll have to re-orientate my perception.

  • Religious private schools are very often free of charge for people who are of the religion. They're run by the local churches and are alternatives to the overcrowded, underfunded, and generally shitty public schools in the area.
  • They're often safer in many places and working class families spend a lot of their income to send their kids to them. The fictional example is because it's a RL phenomenon.
  • The idea they're only for the rich is an idea that's...silly. Private schools run a gamult of support with only a handful being "gated" private schools.
  • Quite a few private schools are founded not for profit but to provide alternatives to public schools for poor families and run, essentially, at cost.
  • With the war on public education by the GOP, they are a way of parents salvaging their children's future. One private school in my area was founded by a black doctor who wanted to help educate black children to get a better chance to get into college.
  • There are private schools for many specialized conditions ranging from disabilities to the children of famous people.
  • There are schools that are fun for the children of immigrant communities that speak in the language (or religion) they come from and help them adapt to their new circumstances.
  • They provide parents with more options for their children's education as well as more control for better or worse.
  • There are also schools for the genuinely gifted.

Generally, private schools range from "just above home schooling" to "being educated by the Illuminati" but there's a wide range between.

And if you feel THE HATE U GIVE is a bad fictional example, here's an RL one.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2018/10/17/were-a-middle-class-black-family-heres-why-weve-skipped-our-local-schools-for-now/

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 10th 2019 at 10:22:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270872: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:22:26 PM

[up]Those aren't really arguments for more private schools, but rather for improving public schools.

There's not much merit to private schools in and of themselves, and a whole lot that's potentially wrong with them.

And of course, charter schools (the original point that started all this) are worse than public and private schools put together.

Edited by M84 on Feb 11th 2019 at 2:23:35 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#270873: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:23:27 PM

Personally, I find the idea of the state having a monopoly on education pretty scary on principle. I'm not against the states having a public education system, mind you-I'm just against them having the only one.

Leviticus 19:34
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270874: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:26:19 PM

[up]It's not a monopoly since education is not a commodity. Education is a right.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#270875: Feb 10th 2019 at 10:27:43 PM

I think this discussion is becoming a bit offtopic for this thread. Maybe use the Education thread?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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