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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#270676: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:22:38 AM

For people who don't have an antisocial personality disorder, yes, I believe bigotry is based on a lack of awareness of others' lived experience, and of one's own biased thinking, along with the internalization and reproduction of kyriarchic power structures disguising themselves as meritocracies.

But, by all means, finish that ellipse.

Edited by Oruka on Feb 9th 2019 at 8:23:47 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270677: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:25:29 AM

For people who don't have an antisocial personality disorder, yes, I believe bigotry is based on a lack of awareness of others' lived experience, and of one's own biased thinking, along with the internalization and reproduction of kyriarchic power structures disguising themselves as meritocracies.

But, by all means, finish that ellipse.

Yes, bigotry is fundamentally ignorant.

But to treat it as merely being wrong about something is... really gross.

Bigotry is not just lacking information, it's a worldview based around hatred and unjustified cruelty. It's repugnant and you're being far too laissez-faire about it.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#270678: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:26:08 AM

> along with the internalization and reproduction of kyriarchic power structures disguising themselves as meritocracies

Which means precisely?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270679: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:28:53 AM

Which means precisely?

Kyriarchy is an umbrella term coined by a radical feminist that extends patriarchy to a general term for oppression that covers things beyond sexism such as capitalism, racism, homophobia, speciesism, classism, ect.

It's essentially a super-intersectional term.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 9th 2019 at 11:29:27 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270680: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:30:25 AM

The main issue I have with the idea that bigotry can be fixed by education is that, regardless of how true or not that may be, most bigots don't want to be educated, meaning more likely than not that they'll never get out of the bigoted mindset.

Meaning it goes from simply "you need to know more and you'll change" right back to the personal flaw of willful ignorance.

Edited by sgamer82 on Feb 9th 2019 at 9:31:18 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270681: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:37:04 AM

The main issue I have with the idea that bigotry can be fixed by education is that, regardless of how true or not that may be, most bigots don't want to be educated, meaning more likely than not that they'll never get out of the bigoted mindset.

Meaning it goes from simply "you need to know more and you'll change" right back to the personal flaw of willful ignorance.

My view on the "education can fix bigotry perspective" is that it's conditional on what "fixing bigotry" means.

If one means going to extremely bigoted people and teaching them to renounce their bigotry then yes you're correct that such a thing is mostly pointless.

But if we're talking about educating the people who are neutral in regards to the whole debate then that can actually make a difference, especially if those neutral people are the next generation.

This isn't really a refutation of your point, just my position on the matter.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270682: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:38:51 AM

I was mostly thinking of the "get them to renounce their bigotry" angle.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270683: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:39:24 AM

[up][up][up]Most ignorance is willful imho.

Edited by M84 on Feb 10th 2019 at 12:39:37 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#270684: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:39:31 AM

I would argue that bigotry is generally due (at least partly) to an insufficient education, but that education has to be done very early on in their life. Obviously a person who's already a full-on bigot isn't very liable to receive new information.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#270685: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:47:43 AM

Generally bigotry and education go hand-in-hand because education also tends to (note: tends to, making exceptions for education subjects that are not considered valuable to capitalism) involve reproduction of social class and higher education thus generally corresponds to better living conditions and social status, which breeds a reflexive fear of people further down on the totem pole trying to get what you have, and so perpetuating bigotry is, by all means, a response to that.

Exposure to different worldviews is not education. These are different things, and too often people are talking about the latter, but they mean the former.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#270686: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:49:32 AM

Bigotery have to many root issues in general for one simple solution, ignorance is one thing, tribalist alternate explaination are another, a desire to be as superior to another and so on and on.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#270687: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:50:51 AM

Problem is those very same bigots will fight tooth and nail to pass their hateful views to the next generation, so just better education will not cut it to solve the problem.

And bigotry shifts as time goes on and society changes, so even if we, say, manage to wipe out racism against black people, it is perfectly possible there'll be an entire generation of racists, but this time towards Jews, to give a random example.

Bigotry is a complex problem, and those rarely have simple solutions to them.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#270688: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:55:20 AM

For people who don't have an antisocial personality disorder, yes, I believe bigotry is based on a lack of awareness of others' lived experience

So you think that, just because a bigot sees a black or trans person living just like them, that will automatically make them drop their bigotry?

[lol][lol][lol]

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#270689: Feb 9th 2019 at 8:57:40 AM

In part because bigotry become a worldview and rarely people leave a worldview without leaving much behind, is how mentality works.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#270690: Feb 9th 2019 at 9:17:36 AM

The problem with treating bigotry as an ultimate evil to be eliminated by education... is that none of that holds up.

Some of the worst, most cynical and most expensively educated bigots can be found in the the bloody Tory party or the GOP, for starters. They are lacking neither in education (granted, a biased one) or exposure to other cultures (again, a biased form of exposure). Yet, still. There they are. Wearing their inherited blinkers with pride.

Culture can't be treated simply by carpet bombing individuals with a standardised education. And, bigotry is both individual and cultural.

Worse, there are biological drives behind the array of processes that give rise to both bigoted behaviours and views. That isn't going anywhere, unless you go all Gatica on the issue.

It's an endemic problem needing constant, holistic tackling. It gives rise to horrors. It's also human.

And, in a century, you'll find that you were a bigot by other people's views. Not that that is a reason to stop trying not to be, of course.

The world doesn't get better by not trying to do difficult things you'll never completely finish. It's a lot like housework.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Feb 9th 2019 at 6:34:24 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#270691: Feb 9th 2019 at 9:39:12 AM

Im kinda wonder if that is going to happen, were our decedende will look of us in the same way people look their racist granpa, it would be a very surrealist experience.

Also some of it just sort of happen almost by osmosis by culture, let said US: a country who have never being invaded, is the only Superpower in economic and techonology terms and can project their power anywhere with very little fear of retaliation.

Is...easier to jump to that into "we are superior" mentality, same in many ways, is easier to be a bigot and harder to drop it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270692: Feb 9th 2019 at 9:42:44 AM

[up]Eh, I expect it.

It would be kind of sad if future generations are not more inclusive overall than us.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#270693: Feb 9th 2019 at 9:46:29 AM

It is possible, however. Society doesn't necessarily only moves forward, it is perfectly possible for our children to be less enlightened than us.

It is our responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#270694: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:31:59 AM

Bigotry survives all attempts to eradicate it because it works: ie, it does in fact help promote one's group's interests. In a competitive economy, discrimminating against out-group members can be a successful strategy. It is offset by the equally successful (but only just) strategy of cooperating with strangers to acheive common goals. Bigotry will go away when it no longer pays.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270695: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:32:03 AM

Honestly, if society comes to view me and other progressives as horrible bigots then I'm going to be happy. Because that means that society has successfully become even more tolerant, which would be wonderful considering that it's hardly inevitable and tolerance is a good thing.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 9th 2019 at 1:32:48 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#270696: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:34:38 AM

@Fourthspartan 65: For what it's worth I'd argue that society viewing you as a bigot is not necessarily mean they're less bigoted. It could, for example, mean that they've found new, more insidious of bigotry.

Leviticus 19:34
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270697: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:39:26 AM

@Fourthspartan 65: For what it's worth I'd argue that society viewing you as a bigot is not necessarily mean they're less bigoted. It could, for example, mean that they've found new, more insidious of bigotry.

Hmm, good point. smile

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#270698: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:45:03 AM

Northham just said that he has no plans to resign.

Welp, here's hoping that the backlash doesn't cause Virginia to flip red next November...Dems really don't need Trump taking it.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#270699: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:45:20 AM

Overall, I would argue that society general plays wack-a-mole with vices. They crush one vice, then move onto another-only for the old vice to eventually pop back up. That isn't to say society never makes progress, just that it's far more slow than people probably realize.

Leviticus 19:34
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#270700: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:50:01 AM

We will find out what’s happening in Virginia this November, as it has its state level midterms in November.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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