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golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#270376: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:15:11 AM

A broken clock is right twice a day.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#270377: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:16:00 AM

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Doesn't mean the clock isn't stopped.

That said, in my very humble opinion, the focus on Warren's ethnicity is way overblown. It's a right-wing talking point, since most of her policy is fairly reasonable. Attacking the policies requires some imagination - which the GOP no longer has. It requires effort, which the GOP no longer wants to put in.

So focusing on the "Pocahontas" thing is legitimately all they can do without some actual effort. As such, there's no need to enable that kind of discourse further.

And since we're going on DNA points, I'm probably something like 1% European, because of the migration of Indo-European settlers into the Indian subcontinent about 3000 years ago. Doesn't make me white even with Eugenics theory.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#270378: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:18:15 AM

Every time a story pops up about Warren's ancestry we spend a few pages arguing about it then move on, barely mentioning her until the next story about her ancestry comes up again.

I did post an interview about her foreign policy ideas here, mostly centered around trade. It got like three responses.

I certainly don't want to see her or any candidate drowned out issues blown out of proportion or manufactured crisis, but if we keep prioritizing the former and ignoring the latter, then I'd be lying to myself if I felt the media wasn't succeeding.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#270379: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:19:13 AM

the use of the term "American Indian" does make it seem worse.
Why? In the 80's, "American Indian" was the correct term to use. I remember that phrase being in my school textbooks. It's not considered the correct term to use now, in the same way that we're supposed to use Person of Color. It's old, not deliberately discriminatory. You're judging it Harsher in Hindsight.
I'm wondering though why Gillebrand, Harris, Castro, Booker, Klobuchar, etc. are nowhere on your list even though they could also fill the repairman and/or builder roles.
They wouldn't be on my lists at the moment only because I don't know any of them as well as I know Warren, Biden, and Sanders. I'm waiting for them to put more information out about themselves and their campaigns before I decide if my support would be better elsewhere; currently Warren is the candidate who I think best represents my views.
Name recognition and position is going to make sure that it falls down to a known brand.
I think that's got some ugly truth to it, but it's also more than 18 months until the actual election, whoever is running has time to build up their (ugh) "brand recognition."
He's obviously better morally but the guy's a dinosaur, I'd trust Sanders as a candidate long before I'd trust Biden.
Could you elaborate? They're both old white guys with a history of questionable remarks (and actions), but Biden can point to his years of experience in the White House, and foreign policy; Sanders is lacking that. I also would prefer Biden over Sanders, though not by a great margin.
I honestly don't care at this moment who the Democratic candidate ends up being. There's no particular issue that hits my buttons enough to get up in arms about that would distinguish one person over another.
I'm not quite there with you; there's several issues that I care about enough to potentially change my primary vote. But I'll take any of them (yes, even Gabbard) over Trump.
I played (and enjoyed) Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude.
If you're running as a Republican, this might be a campaign asset for you. tongue
if she has DNA from a Native American ancestor, that is a simple fact, just like I have DNA from Irish ancestors. Now, if I call myself Irish and start prancing around in stereotypical clothing while affecting an accent, that's obviously going to offend some people.
And you would be going above and beyond what Warren ever did about her family heritage.
If we drop every scandalous candidate, that means we'd be down... everyone so far?
Trump would still be running, he has enough scandals to make up for the entire field of candidates.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270380: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:21:13 AM

Cindy McCain called the police on a mixed race family at a airport because she believed they were human traffickers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/phoenix-police-refute-cindy-mccains-story-of-human-trafficking-at-airport?via=twitter_page

"If you see something, say something" has also been a gateway to white lady racism and paranoia as well—up to the point 30 Rock did a parody episode about it. Liz Lemon got her East Asian neighbor tortured due to his preparations for the Amazing Race looking like (to an idiot racist) bomb plans....which wasn't really that funny then let alone now.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 7th 2019 at 10:25:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#270381: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:33:12 AM

I hope they fined her for wasting police time

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#270382: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:36:16 AM

The Mc Cains continue being the most garbage family in America, I see. And this is happening right after Meghan Mc Cain complains Trump is going after her dead warmongering dad.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270383: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:36:35 AM

Her apology was also a non-apology to the people she presumably humiliated and threatened.

Note: The Mc Cains have an [corrected] Bangladesh child as well.

(Which doesn't preclude racism—Andrew Jackson kidnapped a Native American boy to raise who kept trying to escape back to his family/tribe)

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 7th 2019 at 10:38:48 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#270384: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:43:24 AM

[up][up]While they aren't angels, I can think of at least half a dozen clans in American politics alone that are worse.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#270385: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:47:24 AM

i don't recall a warmongering john Macain

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270386: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:48:17 AM

[up][up]That says very little.

[up]Um... really? He was a famous hawk.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 7th 2019 at 1:48:46 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#270387: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:53:05 AM

In other news, Nancy Pelosi, fresh off being turned into a "gangster" by people trying to interpret applause, is downplaying the importance of a Green New Deal.

Pelosi said the committee was not tasked specifically with crafting the progressives‘ “Green New Deal,” as Ocasio-Cortez had initially sought. The California Democrat called that proposal “a suggestion.”

“It will be one of several or maybe many suggestions that we receive,” Pelosi said. “The green dream or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is but they’re for it right?”

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#270388: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:53:38 AM

It's possible I've forgotten,certainly I can't recall an example off the top of my head without a cursory google search,someone care to remind me of his hawkish behaviour?

[up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 7th 2019 at 6:54:01 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#270389: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:55:05 AM

[up]Hooo boy. Here’s a thorough Rolling Stone profile on McCain from 2008.

In 1998, he formed a political alliance with William Kristol, editor of the neoconservative Weekly Standard, who became one of his closest advisers. Randy Scheunemann — a hard-right lobbyist who was promoting Iraqi exile Ahmad Chalabi — came aboard as Mc Cain’s top foreign-policy adviser. Before long, the senator who once cautioned against “trading American blood for Iraqi blood” had been reborn as a fire-breathing neoconservative who believes in using American military might to spread American ideals — a belief he describes as a “sacred duty to suffer hardship and risk danger to protect the values of our civilization and impart them to humanity.” By 1999, Mc Cain was championing what he called “rogue state rollback.” First on the hit list: Iraq.

...

Privately, Mc Cain brags that he was the “original neocon.” And after 9/11, he took the lead in agitating for war with Iraq, outpacing even Dick Cheney in the dissemination of bogus intelligence about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein. “There’s other organizations besides Mr. bin Laden who are bent on the destruction of the United States,” he warned in an appearance on Hardball on September 12th. “It isn’t just Afghanistan. We’re talking about Syria, Iraq, Iran, perhaps North Korea, Libya and others.” A few days later, he told Jay Leno’s audience that “some other countries” — possibly Iraq, Iran and Syria — had aided bin Laden.

A month after 9/11, with the U.S. bombing Kabul and reeling from the anthrax scare, Mc Cain assured David Letterman that “we’ll do fine” in Afghanistan. He then added, unbidden, “The second phase is Iraq. Some of this anthrax may — and I emphasize may — have come from Iraq.”

Later that month on Larry King, Mc Cain raised the specter of Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction before he peddled what became Dick Cheney’s favorite lie: “The Czech government has revealed meetings, contacts between Iraqi intelligence and Mohamed Atta. The evidence is very clear. . . . So we will have to act.” On Nightline, he again flogged the Czech story and cited Iraqi defectors to claim that “there is no doubt as to [Saddam’s] avid pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. That, coupled with his relations with terrorist organizations, I think, is a case that the administration will be making as we move step by step down this road.”

That December, just as U.S. forces were bearing down on Osama bin Laden in Tora Bora, Mc Cain joined with five senators in an open letter to the White House. “In the interest of our own national security, Saddam Hussein must be removed from power,” they insisted, claiming that there was “no doubt” that Hussein intended to use weapons of mass destruction “against the United States and its allies.”

...

In September 2002, Mc Cain assured Americans that the war would be “fairly easy” with an “overwhelming victory in a very short period of time.” On the eve of the invasion, Hardball host Chris Matthews asked Mc Cain, “Are you one of those who holds up an optimistic view of the postwar scene? Do you believe that the people of Iraq, or at least a large number of them, will treat us as liberators?”

Mc Cain was emphatic: “Absolutely. Absolutely.”

Today, however, Mc Cain insists that he predicted a protracted struggle from the outset. “The American people were led to believe this could be some kind of day at the beach,” he said in August 2006, “which many of us fully understood from the beginning would be a very, very difficult undertaking.” Mc Cain also claims he urged Bush to dump Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. “I’m the only one that said that Rumsfeld had to go,” he said in a January primary debate. Except that he didn’t. Not once. As late as May 2004, in fact, Mc Cain praised Rumsfeld for doing “a fine job.”

Edited by wisewillow on Feb 7th 2019 at 1:55:33 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#270390: Feb 7th 2019 at 10:57:07 AM

Thank you

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#270391: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:00:59 AM

I think at this point, Spitting Image should do a remix of their song "I've Never Met a Nice South African" with "I've Never Met a Nice Republican". It would go over very nicely.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#270392: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:05:11 AM

At the end of the day:

Is it a bad thing that Elizabeth Warren did this?

Yeah, I'd say so. I can understand why and sympathize with someone who believes a thing because she was taught it in her formative years. People believe all kinds of stupid bullshit that they learned and internalized as children.

But at the end of the day, a 37-year-old woman is responsible for her own choices. Warren did a bad.

Should she apologize to the Cherokee Nation?

I mean. She did. Twice. So this is kind of a non-question.

Should she apologize better, though?

I feel like that's a rabbit hole. Like, it's one thing when it's an "I'm sorry you were offended by my righteous comments" apology. But at some point you have to ask yourself if it's going to be turtles all the way down.

But I'm still offended.

Yeah, and you're going to be no matter how good the apology is. An apology doesn't erase the offense. It's an appeal for a second chance to do better. Accepting an apology is like granting a pardon; it's a leap of faith on someone who's owning up to their wrong-doing, not an acquittal of the original crime.

Should this bar her from the Presidency?

I mean, it should be a factor in the primary, sure. But I'll say the same thing for the primary and the general: if this is the worst thing that Elizabeth Warren has ever done, then I'd say she's Praised by Faint Condemnation.

If we can find someone whose policies are just as good as hers and has even fewer scandals, by all means let's push for that person. But all things considered, I'd say she's still a good option.

I'm not trying to downplay the severity of white people appropriating tribal heritage. It's a bad. But it's not exactly sexual harassment of minors, dumping nuclear waste on impoverished minority communities, or trying to build a pipeline that will poison the drinking water for Native American tribes.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet. Except AOC, who is apparently too young to have ever done anything truly terrible to anybody and the attempt to manufacture skeletons to use against her has been non-stop hilarity. But I digress, if this is Warren's ugliest secret, then it's a bad but the fact that it's her worst bad is great.

I reserve the right to change my opinion if tomorrow it turns out she hates black people or something.

Should we, and I'm just throwing this out there, but should we stuff her full of straw and then hit her with sticks like a pinata.

No. Only this terrible strawman gets to be full of straw.

Uh-oh.

Now that you've served your purpose, I'm getting my beating stick.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 7th 2019 at 12:05:43 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#270393: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:07:32 AM

But AOC got caught dancing and having fun; clearly she's unqualified for anything, forever.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270394: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:07:56 AM

In other news, Nancy Pelosi, fresh off being turned into a "gangster" by people trying to interpret applause, is downplaying the importance of a Green New Deal.

Oh please, if you don't see how the applause was blatantly mocking Trump you aren't even trying.

She represents the entire Democratic Party, many of which are moderates who have to be convinced to support the Green New Deal. If you expect her to just start singing its praises then you have fundamentally unrealistic expectations.

I get that because of your ideological leanings your natural reaction is to view her with hostility or skepticism but please have some perspective.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#270395: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:08:53 AM

Yeah, that applause was extremely sarcastic.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#270396: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:10:28 AM

But AOC got caught dancing and having fun; clearly she's unqualified for anything, forever.

Y'know, it's funny. The Left tries to paint AOC as being able to effect change because she's young and vibrant and full of fresh ideas. The Right tries to paint her as being a threat to the American way of life because she's young and vibrant and has a smart phone.

Both have been so effective at casting this image of her that I have to remind myself sometimes that she is not literally nineteen years old. And I mean that in a good way.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 7th 2019 at 12:10:49 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#270397: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:20:18 AM

The Right is just mad because she's a nonwhite woman who doesn't take any of their shit.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270398: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:20:50 AM

On the subject of AOC:

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline – The plan is massively ambitious and faces political blockades. Proponents believe it's what's necessary to start saving the world from the threat of climate change and to reshape the U.S. economy

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-releases-green-new-deal-outline


CNN Poll: Almost everyone wants a public report on Mueller's findings

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/politics/cnn-poll-russia-mueller-report-release/index.html

Nearly nine in 10 Americans say Robert Mueller's investigators should produce a full, public report on their findings, a sentiment that crosses party lines, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

And nearly half of Americans think Donald Trump's campaign colluded with the Russian government to help get Trump elected (48%), while 42% say there was no collusion.

Overall, 87% say investigators should release a public report, 9% that they should not. Support for a public release stands at 80% among Republicans and those who approve of the way the President is handling his job, and at 92% among Democrats and those who disapprove of the way Trump is handling his job. Among independents, 88% say a report should be released

Edited by sgamer82 on Feb 7th 2019 at 12:22:49 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#270399: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:31:29 AM

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline – The plan is massively ambitious and faces political blockades. Proponents believe it's what's necessary to start saving the world from the threat of climate change and to reshape the U.S. economy

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-releases-green-new-deal-outline

I really like it, but there's a rather major issue.

It calls for us to move away from fossil fuels and Nuclear Power.

Now I'm not really a fan of moving away from nuclear power in-general but to want to do it even before we've properly moved away from fossil fuels is just egregious.

I really hope that part is dropped entirely.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#270400: Feb 7th 2019 at 11:34:49 AM

Nuclear power is about the only possible way to sustain future energy needs without using fossil fuels going forward.

It's not even dangerous.

Oh really when?

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