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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270251: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:53:28 PM

Looking at CNN and the headline is "Sen. Warren apologizes for caring herself "American Indian'."

Did something new happen or are they behind the curve?

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#270252: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:59:42 PM

Yes. On some kind of law license I believe.

I really hate it because I was hoping she could shake it off, and it makes it way harder for me to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Edit-

[down] Nope.

[down][down] Yep.

Edited by Hodor2 on Feb 6th 2019 at 3:11:23 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#270253: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:01:41 PM

So she's apologizing for the thing that started this whole mess?

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#270254: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:04:38 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-for-calling-herself-native-american/2019/02/05/1627df76-2962-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?utm_term=.b17c2687191c

No, not the thing that started it. Actually putting herself as being native American on her state baw registration card in 1986. Which is new information.

Edited by Soban on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:05:50 AM

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#270255: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:20:01 PM

@golgothosArisen:

Yes, clearly the guy who got arrested at civil rights demonstrations is shaky on civil rights.

Ah, the typical response from Bernie Bros to the racism present in their movement and their Lord-and-Savior.

Mind, Sanders barely even participated in the Civil Rights Movement. So, as usual, Sanders isn't worth shit, but I'll be damned if he isn't full of it.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#270256: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:21:36 PM

Will Mitch and the Senate Republicans allow another shutdown, given the polling beating the GOP took the last time around?
The real question is if Mitch can afford to not follow Trump blindly; so far, all signs point to no.
This is made worse by the fact that he has an extensive history of tone deafness when it comes to anything that isn't class, such as when he said that people who don't want to vote for Stacey Abrams because of her race aren't necessarily racist.
Well ... to be fair, that argument is probably true for some voters. But assuredly, there were some who voted against her specifically because she's black and female.
I think a lot of the people who dislike Bernie here don't do it because they're inherently against the man, I think a lot of us (myself, at least) were actually on board with him at one point or another.

And then we just kept... finding out more about him. A gaffe here, a foot-in-mouth there, repeated It's All About Me instances, vague, non-specific policies where he promises the world and glosses over the "how" and we've just gradually soured on him to the point that he's more of a detriment than an asset.

Yeah. Sanders won't have my vote in the primary, but if he wins it, he'd have my vote in the general. But the same can be said for anyone who's put their name in the Democratic primary so far.
It's almost as if redistribution of wealth and environmental protection especially helps minorities.
Oh, it absolutely does. But there are specific problems that minorities face that Sanders is, at best, giving minimal attention to.
Howard Schultz thinks it’s unfair people have branded him a billionaire
Oh cry me a fucking river, jackass. Also, your coffee sucks.
The weirdest thing is that all his statements just make it seem more and more like he's a somewhat socially progressive Republican.
Socially progressive Republicans? I don't think those exist.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#270257: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:25:05 PM

[up] New England still managed to hold on to a couple of Rockefeller Republicans, but overall, they are an endangered species.

Edited by megaeliz on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:25:38 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270258: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:34:03 PM

Concerning Elizabeth Warren...

So I guess this means the Cherokee Nation actually had a point when they called her out after all. They weren't just "overreacting".

Edited by M84 on Feb 6th 2019 at 5:34:48 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#270259: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:34:59 PM

No, I think they were complaining about more recent comments...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270260: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:36:14 PM

They were complaining about her misrepresenting herself as a Native American. Which she has.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#270261: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:36:26 PM

At this point, Warren might be in trouble. Even if this isn't a huge issue; places like 538 are already pointing out that it just won't go away and is getting disproportionate coverage. It might well turn into her "Emails". And since ability to actually beat Trump is a key factor in choosing the nominee...

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Feb 6th 2019 at 5:39:10 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270262: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:40:43 PM

Personally I still haven't gotten over how quick she was to go along with the "DNC rigged primaries" populist anti-establishment bullshit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#270263: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:43:58 PM

I previously understood but did not agree with the Cherokee Nation's criticism and basically felt that they were serving as useful idiots to Trump (which I know is a terrible way of putting that).

Basically, my position is/was that I can definitely understand and sympathize with Native American tribes being angry at the fact that their oppressors add insult to injury by co-opting/ridiculing their culture and claiming Native ancestry for cool points. But at the same time, it didn't seem that egregious that Warren would believe in Native ancestry through family legend (she's not anywhere near the first person to do so- which granted, is part of the problem). And I felt that her use of the DNA test was well-intentioned if tone-deaf and was a legitimate response to Trump's criticism of her, which is itself racist. And for what it's worth, the test results showed that her claims were not completely wrong, since she didn't claim to be a member of any specific tribe.

But with this new info, it's hard for me not to see Warren as not fundamentally different or better than Rachel Dolezal.

And yeah, this is definitely going to be her "emails" and get disproportionate coverage by newspapers and reporters glad to do Trump's work for him. But unlike the emails, I kind of see this as legitimately disqualifying.

Edited by Hodor2 on Feb 6th 2019 at 3:45:05 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270264: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:45:42 PM

I've stated I'm probably not going to vote for Biden OR Bernie but I am generally of the mind both are much more acceptable candidates than people give them. Warren is my current hope for the Primary but I am hoping she'll go further on economics.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270265: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:45:51 PM

[up][up]TBH, this doesn't really change my opinion of Warren, given that I was never really a fan of hers either. For reasons which I have already stated before on this thread.

[up]But Sanders and Biden are completely different policy wise. The only thing they have in common are being old white men with issues concerning women and other minorities — Sanders with his gaffes and Biden with being way too touchy-feely with women.

Edited by M84 on Feb 6th 2019 at 5:47:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#270266: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:46:35 PM

I am not convinced that this revelation says that much actually - it's not that different from But at the same time, it didn't seem that egregious that Warren would believe in Native ancestry through family legend .

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270267: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:49:23 PM

And though it's not that big a deal relative to everything else about it, I'm also not terribly impressed with the way she described herself as "American Indian" on that card.

It's pedantic, but I really don't like it when indigenous people in the USA are described as "Indians". They aren't from India.

Unless she's also claiming Indian ancestry too. tongue

Edited by M84 on Feb 6th 2019 at 5:50:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#270268: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:52:13 PM

[up] What year was it even from again?

[up][up] Yeah, I bet it was just some type of family story, that a Native American married into the family at some point. I can't imagine it's unheard of, and since as [down] mentioned, it was the 80s, the type of technology to check, hadn't been developed yet.

Edited by megaeliz on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:59:36 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270269: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:53:38 PM

[up]1986.

I'm pretty sure we knew that indigenous people in the USA weren't actually from India by then.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#270270: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:56:31 PM

Whut? That is not new information. That is how the stupid thing started. Someone dug up the registration and spun a whole story about her getting to where she was due to claiming to be Native American. Which isn't true. The story has been debunked multiple times by now.

God, that is Hillary's E-mails all over again.

So, to be perfectly clear: The story goes as this: Warren's mother always told her she had native American Ancestry. Therefore Warren wrote it at this stupid form at this point. It didn't affect anything, she was just overly precise (and, btw, why do forms in the US asks questions like this anyway? It should be completely irrelevant).

Decades later the Republicans really needed dirt on her and that was all they could dig up. And since then they have ensured that the topic doesn't die.

And even IF it turns out that there is more to this form after all, I still would think that the Cherokee overreacted because based on the information they had at the time they demanded an apology for something Warren hadn't done.

So no, this is not some "new information", as far as I can tell is old information brought up again.

[up] Sure, but the concept that one should use Native Americans to be respectful just came up around this time. You know, language changes. There was a period in which "Negro" was considered a respectful, sensitive word.

Edited by Swanpride on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:58:41 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270271: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:57:21 PM

[up]No, this card thing is a new one.

From the article:

Using an open records request during a general inquiry, for example, The Post obtained Warren’s registration card for the State Bar of Texas, providing a previously undisclosed example of Warren identifying as an “American Indian.”

Seriously, "American Indian"? Not "Native American" at least?

Edited by M84 on Feb 6th 2019 at 5:58:59 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#270272: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:59:43 PM

Yes, Biden is fairly down lower from Bernie in terms of "people I want to be President."

Biden's chief appeal is he's a known quantity who has more or less said he wants to continue (and restore) all of Obama's previous policies. I've often wondered about whether or not after Trump we can afford to have a radical policy shaker upper like Bernie or if we'll need a solid state that will serve his term in repairing the damage.

Basically, a vote for Biden is a vote for the repairman.

A vote for Bernie and Warren is a vote for building a new house.

Biden gets a defense from me because we've had two years of a child who doesn't know anything about government while Biden is a guy who knows how to actually run a proper white house—it's the appeal to experience.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 6th 2019 at 2:00:44 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#270273: Feb 6th 2019 at 2:00:27 PM

[up][up] Unless they dig something up in which she actually used the claim to her advantage or which is less than 20 years old, it is still a nothing burger of a scandal. And, as I explained above, language changes over time.

Edited by Swanpride on Feb 6th 2019 at 2:01:39 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270274: Feb 6th 2019 at 2:02:37 PM

[up][up]I'd still prefer we get a new POTUS who isn't also a dirty old man.

[up]This isn't an issue of "language". This is an issue of knowing the difference between indigenous people of the USA and people from India.

Edited by M84 on Feb 6th 2019 at 6:03:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#270275: Feb 6th 2019 at 2:03:23 PM

@ Charles- I guess I'm wondering though why Gillebrand, Harris, Castro, Booker, Klobuchar, etc. are nowhere on your list even though they could also fill the repairman and/or builder roles.

Because it seems more obviously like the appeal has to be "comparably socially conservative white guy" than "good economic policy" if you are preferring Biden over say Gillebrand or Harris, especially because their economic policies are closer to Bernie's than Biden's is.

And regarding Warren, the use of the term "American Indian" does make it seem worse. And while I know it is subjective as to whether this really does make things worse and whether her previously revealed actions were disqualified, but for me, the bar card thing makes it seem much more like she was trying to (unjustifiably) claim Native American ancestry in a substantive way. Whereas the earlier reveal related to her university came across to me more like an aside comment from Warren than a substantive claim, and could be blamed more on the university for wanting to cite her to bolster their diversity stats.

Edited by Hodor2 on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:07:15 AM


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