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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269826: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:11:01 PM

Northam is taking questions from reporters. He is asked how he accounts for the nickname “coonman” when he was at VMI. He said he does not know motive of friends in calling him that.

Ah, but of course that was completely normal in the 80's and it would terribly unfair for us to judge him for that. <rolls eyes>

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269827: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:11:36 PM

[up][up] She, uh, she beat him in the last primary. I fail to see him winning against her on round two.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 2nd 2019 at 3:11:43 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#269828: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:12:18 PM

It was edgy and still happening. How acceptable it was is up for debate, but it was a lot more common than you guys seem to realise.

Even if only some of it got Kodak momented.

Take home Aesop for today: be careful what gets posted on Facebook (or wherever), because the thing that was hilariously subversive one night 40-years ago may come back to haunt you after you've forgotten you'd even done it, and the times have moved on left the old you (with a terrible nickname) in the dust.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Feb 2nd 2019 at 8:14:54 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269829: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:12:21 PM

Right,should have classified I meant if anyone was going to primary her it would have been them

edit [up] Euodiachloris please stop

[up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 2nd 2019 at 8:13:09 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269830: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:14:25 PM

[up][up] I’m not sure your personal experience with blackface being common in South Africa in the 80s really translates to the current case we’re discussing. Like, at all.

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:14:42 PM

They should have sent a poet.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#269831: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:28:29 PM

It does if you think that edgy shit you did before can really hunt you now with face and stuff.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#269832: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:34:11 PM

I always find it very amusing when people try to put so much distance between the '80s US and South African culture of the time... when it wasn't the US refusing to sell films, TV, Scripture Union bumf, weapons, under-the-table deals and so, so much else besides.

Because of the century-long links between various States and the Boer states. Not to mention the links between the Dutch-English Yankee states and the Cape Colony. But, hey. [lol]

I can reminisce about, e.g. Robotech with those my age from the States. But, nobody in the UK knows what that was. The UK didn't dub its TV series into Afrikaans (the SABC did do some dubs — and desperately hoped not to get caught; even with joint projects like Shaka Zulu). But, Remington Steele, Airwolf, Chips, Chicago Blues, Cagney and Lacey... whatever. Tune in to the radio at the right time to get the English track.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Feb 2nd 2019 at 8:42:35 PM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269833: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:43:33 PM

[up] None of that has anything to do with Northam or whether blackface was common in the 80s.

They should have sent a poet.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#269834: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:46:58 PM

[up][up] Look, my question is this: do you have any examples of American pop culture from the 80’s - and I’m talking contemporary, mind you, not just something from a couple decades prior that could have been shrugged off as “well, that’s how it was back then” - that used blackface and were seen as acceptable?

Oh God! Natural light!
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#269835: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:52:30 PM

I distinctly remember the issue of those missiles having been brought up here within the past few weeks. Maybe you missed that while skipping over several pages?
Since I've spent the last two months moving and settling into a new job, if it was mentioned here I definitely missed it. It's only the last week-ish that I've been able to (mostly) read this thread and most of the rest of the forum.
either keep the (hopefully) ex-racist and be slammed by left and right-wing media for tolerating racism, or get rid of the guy, taking the moral victory but giving the right the go-ahead to go digging in Democrats' past for any kind of bigotry, regardless of whether or not they've recanted their behavior
Given the GOP's current openly racist policies and leadership, it's an especially insulting kind of hypocrisy for them to go after him. I don't know how the governor has been acting lately (ie, the last ~10 years) but if he's still running and getting elected as a Democrat in a not-firmly-Dem state like Virginia is, my first impulse is to doubt that him resigning is automatically the best move.note 
Wait till the other person in the photo comes out and confirms it and see how long his denials last
What happens if the other person in the photo (or the photographer) come out and say that neither person is the governor?

Re: dumb nicknames, my forum handle is a nickname I got in high school. Now, I'd argue that mine is pretty cool, but I recall other kids ending up with nicknames like "Onion Lad", "Wang," and "Buzzkill." Since people don't normally choose their own nicknames, it seems strange to hold this against Northam directly.

Edited by BlueNinja0 on Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:52:47 PM

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269836: Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:58:11 PM

Given the GOP's current openly racist policies and leadership, it's an especially insulting kind of hypocrisy for them to go after him. I don't know how the governor has been acting lately (ie, the last ~10 years) but if he's still running and getting elected as a Democrat in a not-firmly-Dem state like Virginia is, my first impulse is to doubt that him resigning is automatically the best move.note

And what makes you think that tolerating a man who wore either a KKK uniform or blackface is in any way good for the Democratic Party?

Y'know those African-Americans who got Northam elected? I don't think they'd appreciate it if we tolerated such things.

There are no benefits strategically or morally to tolerating such a past.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#269837: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:01:17 PM

I feel like three's a distinction between "We should hold our people to a higher standard than the GOP" and "One transgression from over 30 years ago means you should be morally and politically excommunicated."

Again, depending if nothing worse comes to light, and also how he even deals with this. And it doesn't seem like he's dealing with it particularly well.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 2nd 2019 at 3:03:11 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269838: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:07:05 PM

I feel like three's a distinction between "We should hold our people to a higher standard than the GOP" and "One transgression from over 30 years ago means you should be morally and politically excommunicated."

Again, depending if nothing worse comes to light, and also how he even deals with this. And it doesn't seem like he's dealing with it particularly well.

He wore the uniform of a hate group that has murdered thousands if not tens of thousands of people, that is not a transgression I see any reason to forgive.

Redemption is earned and he has done absolutely nothing to earn that, he literally only apologized because people learned about it.

I do not see anything unreasonable about holding elected officials to a high standard.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#269839: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:09:41 PM

Good thing I didn't say anything about holding officials to high standards being wrong.

You seem to be starting from a place that I naturally wouldn't, namely, that it makes sense for him to bring this up himself in the first place and not doing so is conclusive proof of anything one way or the other.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 2nd 2019 at 3:11:07 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269840: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:19:08 PM

> he literally only apologized because people learned about it.

Well yeah,he was never going drawn attention to it because of criticism that would naturally follow,but someone digging for dirt found it anyway,i honestly think they've had knowledge of this photo for a awhile now and were waiting to release it for maximum damage,mission accomplished for them

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#269841: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:21:02 PM

There are no benefits strategically or morally to tolerating such a past.
Like many other tropers here, I'm uncomfortable with a blanket policy that one mistake places one beyond redemption. I'm willing to wait and see if this was more than one mistake, the same way I was when Franken was first accused - but it's equally possible that this was a dumb party joke meant at the time to be satire but poorly executed, just as much as your accusation that him wearing an insulting choice of clothing 30 years ago means he must be a racist and resign asap. I'm not from Virginia, that's why I'm curious what his record is, both in personal and professional behavior during his time in office (and maybe before). What does he have to do to earn forgiveness from you?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#269842: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:26:40 PM

His Press Conference was apparently pretty wild. And not in a good way <.<

"You can reply to this Message!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269843: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:26:54 PM

Well yeah,he was never going drawn attention to it because of criticism that would naturally follow,but someone digging for dirt found it anyway,i honestly think they've had knowledge of this photo for a awhile now and were waiting to release it for maximum damage,mission accomplished for them

There is absolutely no evidence that this is true, and I have to say it's rather telling that you'd rather formulate conspiracy theories about the people who found it instead of hold Northam responsible for his actions as an adult.

Like many other tropers here, I'm uncomfortable with a blanket policy that one mistake places one beyond redemption. I'm willing to wait and see if this was more than one mistake, the same way I was when Franken was first accused - but it's equally possible that this was a dumb party joke meant at the time to be satire but poorly executed, just as much as your accusation that him wearing an insulting choice of clothing 30 years ago means he must be a racist and resign asap. I'm not from Virginia, that's why I'm curious what his record is, both in personal and professional behavior during his time in office (and maybe before). What does he have to do to earn forgiveness from you?

This is wrong on several levels.

By calling it "one mistake" you are rather egregiously downplaying the severity of the actions in question, denigrating an entire race and wearing the uniform of a murderous hate group are not minor mistakes and treating them as if they were is highly questionable.

Furthermore, I did not, in fact, say that he is beyond redemption. Simply that he has displayed zero effort to actually redeem himself.

If you want to see a racist who actually redeemed himself look at Robert Byrd.

He was a member of the Klan who later grew past his racism, he did not do that through pretending that it never existed. But rather publicly acknowledging it, apologizing, and working to redeem himself.

That's why his passing was mourned by the NAACP while Northam is being asked to resign by the same organization, because unlike Byrd he has done nothing to redeem himself.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 2nd 2019 at 4:30:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#269844: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:31:54 PM

I mean, I'm not going to comment on whether Robert Byrd was sincere or not but he kind of had to acknowledge his past because it was so well-established and out in the open. Again, I'm not saying his remorse and improvement were false, but the comparison only works on a superficial level.

Anyway, my perspective on this kind of thing is: "Huh, that's bad, he was probably pretty racist then. Oh, it was over 30 years ago, been can and do change considerably in that time, so I'm not going to assume he's the same person as then. What's his actual record like?"

That being said, again, it doesn't sound like he's handling the situation well, which could be indicative of things itself.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 2nd 2019 at 3:34:14 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269845: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:34:45 PM

> There is absolutely no evidence that this is true, and I have to say it's rather telling that you'd rather formulate conspiracy theories about the people who found it instead of hold Northam responsible for his actions as an adult.

The people who found it had every reason to publicise such damning evidence because of damage it can do the democratic party,and your right no evidence has appeared to suggest they had advanced knowledge of the photo,but if they did wouldn't be implausible

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#269846: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:35:55 PM

Honestly I think if he resigns or not should be up to the Virginia black caucus, if he wants to show that he’s grown beyond the racism shown there then willingly submitting himself to the desicion of a group of African Americans seems like the best way to do it.

[up] My question would be this, how could he not know? This thign was in his yearbook, so he put it there, if he honestly can’t remember having chosen to punish a racist photo in his medical yearbook than he must have been up to so much racist shit that it slipped though the cracks.

Dressing up as the KKK isn’t going to be something you forget you did unless you’re very racist, either he knew and it was an old shame or he had forgotten because it was that small a thing to him.

Edited by Silasw on Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:38:59 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269847: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:37:20 PM

The people who found it had every reason to publicise such damning evidence because of damage it can do the democratic party,and your right no evidence has appeared to suggest they had advanced knowledge of the photo,but if they did wouldn't be implausible

Once again, you're making an assumption that isn't actually supported by evidence.

Maybe they did it because they wanted to hurt the Democratic Party, or maybe they did it because they wanted people to know that he was involved in something horribly racist.

Their motives are the absolute worst thing to focus on.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 2nd 2019 at 4:37:56 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#269848: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:38:49 PM

Also, regardless of everything else I've said, I don't think it matters whether this was brought to attention by Republicans or if they're shamelessly trying to use it for politics.

That Republicans are giant hypocrites shouldn't have a barring on Democrats doing the right thing. I might not agree necessarily that him resigning is the right thing, but that shouldn't be a factor in it either way.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#269849: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:40:08 PM

If Republicans are wanting to police racists and sexual predators out of the Democratic Party for once I’m willing to accept their help.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#269850: Feb 2nd 2019 at 1:46:06 PM

[up]x4

Honestly I think if he resigns or not should be up to the Virginia black caucus, if he wants to show that he’s grown beyond the racism shown there then willingly submitting himself to the desicion of a group of African Americans seems like the best way to do it.

I like that idea.

Edited by megaeliz on Feb 2nd 2019 at 4:46:58 AM


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