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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269751: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:03:50 AM

if there's an iceberg underneath all this the ones that dug up the photos will find it and then harp on about it for ages "How could the Democratics tolerate such a racist person?Who knew the Democrats were so racist?" meanwhile the Democrats are speechless given at the hypocrisy being thrown in their faces

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#269752: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:07:08 AM

It is indeed truly rich that this was broken by a right-wing propaganda organization and that Republicans are calling for his resignation.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 2nd 2019 at 10:07:23 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#269753: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:10:53 AM

There's also some other hypocrisy possible in being the party that that's fine with former convictions, but immediately goes for the nuclear option over (so far) former racist behaviour.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#269754: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:13:52 AM

There’s a difference between wanting justice for poor people after they’ve been through the court system and prison and wanting powerful people to face consequences for racist behavior for the first time.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#269755: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:16:53 AM

The thing is, the situations always land Dems in a Morton's Fork; either keep the (hopefully) ex-racist and be slammed by left and right-wing media for tolerating racism, or get rid of the guy, taking the moral victory but giving the right the go-ahead to go digging in Democrats' past for any kind of bigotry, regardless of whether or not they've recanted their behavior, expose it (or just make something up and get leftist media to buy it), and effectively end their career.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:17:23 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#269756: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:18:13 AM

I'm watching last night's Rachel Maddow and I can't really disagree with the point being made that there is an opportunity for Northam to resign in favor of a strong black Democrat and help mend the wounds opened by this revelation.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#269757: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:25:48 AM

Exactly. The Reps only shot themselves on the foot. Discard and Draw.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#269758: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:31:17 AM

This time. It's bad to set a precedent that you only need a single piece of decades-old evidence to start ousting elected Democrats.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#269759: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:33:20 AM

Didn't Franken already set that precedent?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#269760: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:36:50 AM

Well, Franken's "one piece of evidence" turned into an avalanche of accusations against him, and it's clear he's had a problem with sexual harassment going back decades. I originally called for caution on condemnation of him based on the principle of benefit of the doubt. He failed that test, and so I agree with his resignation.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 2nd 2019 at 10:40:11 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#269761: Feb 2nd 2019 at 7:48:08 AM

If Franken set a precedent, it's that after one thing comes up, you should take a closer look, then take action.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#269762: Feb 2nd 2019 at 8:56:51 AM

Does it matter what the GOP does to its many rotten apples, we already know they're uncaring. Acknowledging and accordingly punishing the misconduct of its own members is, for me, one of the many reasons why the Democrats are the better rolemodel.

Life is unfair...
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#269764: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:23:16 AM

Trump was burning through cash through propping up his campaign and building businessesand asked one of the few banks who would loan money to him for cash, Deutsche Bank, but they declined because the loan was too risky if Trump won and then he defaulted.

    Article 
Donald J. Trump was burning through cash.

It was early 2016, and he was lending tens of millions of dollars to his presidential campaign and had been spending large sums to expand the Trump Organization’s roster of high-end properties.

To finance his business’s growth, Mr. Trump turned to a longtime ally, Deutsche Bank, one of the few banks still willing to lend money to the man who has called himself “The King of Debt.”

Mr. Trump’s loan request, which has not been previously reported, set off a fight that reached the top of the German bank, according to three people familiar with the request. In the end, Deutsche Bank did something unexpected. It said no.

Senior officials at the bank, including its future chief executive, believed that Mr. Trump’s divisive candidacy made such a loan too risky, the people said. Among their concerns was that if Mr. Trump won the election and then defaulted, Deutsche Bank would have to choose between not collecting on the debt or seizing the assets of the president of the United States.

Two of the people familiar with the loan request said the Trump Organization had been seeking to borrow against its Miami resort to pay for work on a golf property in Turnberry, Scotland.

A Trump Organization spokeswoman, Amanda Miller, denied that the company had needed outside funding for Turnberry.

“This story is absolutely false,” Ms. Miller said. “We bought Trump Turnberry without any financing and put tens of millions of dollars of our own money into the renovation, which began in 2014. At no time was any money needed to finance the purchase or the refurbishment of Trump Turnberry.”

She did not specifically address whether the Trump Organization had sought a loan from Deutsche Bank.

Troy Gravitt, a Deutsche Bank spokesman, declined to comment.

The failed loan request is an untold chapter in Mr. Trump’s long and tortured relationship with the banking industry. It shows that he was actively engaged in running his business in the midst of the presidential campaign, and it is likely to attract scrutiny from Democrats on two House committees that are investigating his two-decade relationship with Deutsche Bank.

In the early 1990s, Mr. Trump’s hotel and casino properties declared bankruptcy four times, leaving prominent banks, including Citicorp and Manufacturers Hanover, with painful losses. The real estate mogul was all but excommunicated from Wall Street.

Deutsche Bank, which was eager to gain a foothold in the lucrative American market and more tolerant of risk than many of its rivals, filled the void. In 1998, it lent Mr. Trump $125 million for renovations on a Wall Street skyscraper. The relationship blossomed, and over the next 17 years, Deutsche Bank lent or participated in loans to Mr. Trump and his companies totaling more than $2.5 billion.

Then, just as the first votes were being cast in the Republican presidential primaries, Mr. Trump’s lender of last resort got cold feet.

The funding of Mr. Trump’s golf empire has been something of a mystery.

In the decade before he was elected president, Mr. Trump’s company spent hundreds of millions of dollars buying or renovating about a dozen clubs and resorts around the world. Despite Mr. Trump’s self-proclaimed fondness for relying on debt, the Trump Organization has reported that it used its own money for most of the acquisitions and upgrades.

A prominent golf journalist, James Dodson, said Mr. Trump’s son Eric had told him in 2013 that the company’s golf properties were funded by Russians. Eric Trump has denied making the comment.

Mr. Trump did borrow money for some of his golf properties. In 2012, Deutsche Bank lent the Trump Organization a total of more than $100 million to finance the 72-hole Doral resort near Miami, home to the famed Blue Monster course.

Two years later, the Trump Organization bought the Turnberry hotel and golf course for a reported $63 million. The course, which features sweeping views of the sea west of Scotland, has hosted the British Open several times.

In 2014 and 2015, a Trump legal entity lent at least $96 million to the subsidiary that operated Turnberry, according to British regulatory filings. The next year, the Trump Organization would go back to Deutsche Bank for more.

The relationship between Mr. Trump and Deutsche Bank had survived some rocky moments. In 2008, amid the financial crisis, Mr. Trump stopped repaying a loan to finance the construction of a skyscraper in Chicago — and then sued the bank, accusing it of helping cause the crisis. After that lawsuit, Deutsche Bank’s investment-banking arm severed ties with Mr. Trump.

But by 2010, he was back doing business with Deutsche Bank through its private-banking unit, which catered to some of the world’s wealthiest people. That unit arranged the Doral loans, and another in 2012 tied to the Chicago skyscraper.

Mr. Trump’s go-to in the private bank was Rosemary Vrablic, a senior banker in its New York office. In 2013, she was the subject of a flattering profile in The Mortgage Observer, a real estate magazine owned by Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who was also among her clients. In 2015, she arranged the loan that financed Mr. Trump’s transformation of Washington’s Old Post Office Building into the Trump International Hotel, a few blocks down Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House.

In early 2016, as Mr. Trump was lending tens of millions of dollars to his campaign, his company contacted Ms. Vrablic about getting money for Turnberry, said two of the three people familiar with the request, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to discuss the matter publicly. The proposal was to expand Deutsche Bank’s outstanding loans backed by the Doral by well over $10 million and to use the proceeds for work on Turnberry, the people said.

Around the time that Mr. Trump was winning New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada, officials in the private-banking unit informed their superiors that they were inclined to provide him with the loan, according to one of the people familiar with the internal discussions.

Senior executives in New York balked, arguing that Mr. Trump’s candidacy made such a loan unacceptably risky, the three people said. In part, they feared the bank’s reputation could be harmed if the transaction were to become public because of the polarizing statements Mr. Trump was making on the campaign trail.

Officials in the private-banking unit protested that Deutsche Bank already had numerous outstanding loans to Mr. Trump and that there was no reason not to make another, two of the people said. The decision was appealed to Deutsche Bank’s top executives in Frankfurt.

That was the first time that some senior officials realized the extent of their bank’s dealings with Mr. Trump, the three people said.

The proposed loan was examined by an internal committee that is responsible for vetting transactions to ensure they do not pose serious risks to the bank’s reputation, the people said. That March, the committee unanimously rejected the loan. Christian Sewing — who was in charge of Deutsche Bank’s wealth-management division and would become chief executive two years later — was among those who made the final decision, the people said.

A Trump entity ended up lending at least $45 million to Turnberry that year, on top of the $96 million it had lent Turnberry in the previous two years.

Even though the Deutsche Bank loan didn’t go through, it will most likely draw the interest of congressional Democrats.

Representative Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, which is investigating Russian efforts to interfere in the 2016 election, has said he wants to look closely at Deutsche Bank because of its past involvement in laundering money for Russian nationals. And Democrats on the House Financial Services Committee, overseen by Representative Maxine Waters, have been asking questions about Deutsche Bank’s loans to Mr. Trump since 2017.

Mr. Schiff and Ms. Waters are planning to conduct a joint investigation of Mr. Trump’s involvement with Deutsche Bank.

During the campaign, Mr. Trump sought to take advantage of that relationship when rivals painted him as a bad businessman who was frozen out of the mainstream financial system.

The same month that Deutsche Bank rejected the loan proposal, Mr. Trump sought to blunt those attacks by citing his warm relationships with Wall Street firms. He singled out Deutsche Bank.

“They are totally happy with me,” he told The New York Times in March 2016. “I do business with them today.”

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269765: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:28:13 AM

If we're going to hold Kavanaugh responsible for a decades-old yearbook and actions in a Yale fraternity then we should hold Northam responsible too.

Northam never took responsibility for it, his apology was a half-assed attempt at damage control when people discovered his actions.

If you want to look at a former racist who actually got better then you should look at Senator Byrd, unlike Northam, he never hid his history of racism and thus unlike Northam, it can be credibly said that he actually worked to change.

Northam as an adult chose to engage in a grotesque joke involving blackface and KKK garb, that is bad enough on its own but it's made worse by the fact that it was the 80's. Unlike say the 50's that kind of racism was not normalized, they sure as hell knew it was wrong but did it anyway.

I believe that people should face consequences for their actions and powerful White men should not be exempt.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:28:58 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269766: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:36:38 AM

[up] [tup]

If it was, say, him being a racist dick to someone, I could understand wanting to unbury all his other skeletons in the closet (even if I don't necessarily agree). But this...this is a man in a Klan hood. Next to a man in blackface. This isn't any minor scandal, this is about as bad as you can get before you start assaulting people.

The fact of the matter is, he should resign. Democrats are supposed to be better than this type of thing, and we should hold him to that standard.

Like with Franken, he shouldn't be coddled because he's 'one of us'. (Not that anyone here has done that, more a comment on how things go down on Twitter...)

Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 2nd 2019 at 12:37:24 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#269767: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:43:00 AM

Has he made any public statments about the revelation, as if nothing else I’d like to know that it’s all real and not a right-wing photoshop job.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#269768: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:43:01 AM

Hardly a surprise that the Kremlin is taking a shine to Gabbard.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269769: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:44:17 AM

Has he made any public statments about the revelation, as if nothing else I’d like to know that it’s all real and not a right-wing photoshop job.

He's apologized for it, all evidence points towards it being authentic.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#269770: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:44:50 AM

The thing with this kind of situation is that it also depends on the degree of the action.

If it was, say, a racist joke made a long time ago, that would still be bad of course but far less egregious than wearing a Klan robe. You can't just shrug something like that off. Even if Northam has changed it's still pretty damning, especially given that Northam had not disclosed this beforehand.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#269771: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:46:15 AM

Ten bucks says Gabbard refuses to condemn Russian interference in support of her and claims that it isn’t happening. Five bucks side bet that she uses the phrase “fake news” about it at some point.

[up][up] Care to link/quote the apology?

Edited by Silasw on Feb 2nd 2019 at 5:46:50 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269772: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:47:33 AM

I'd like to know the context personally.

Prince Harry wore a Nazi outfit but that was a joke made by an idiot kid.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#269773: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:49:31 AM

[up][up]Gabbard went full whataboutism on the 2016 interference; her response boiled down to "America does that as well, so what?".

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269774: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:50:40 AM

Care to link/quote the apology?

Sure.

••• I'd like to know the context personally.

Prince Harry wore a Nazi outfit but that was a joke made by an idiot kid.

The context is that he was an adult during a time when it was not the norm.

Blackface and KKK garb without any attempt at redemption is not something that "it's just a joke bro" should be a valid excuse.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269775: Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:55:10 AM

I'm asking if it was meant to be a display of hate and conformity with the ideals or it was, say, "I'm going to have people chase me around and kick me out of a party as par of a scenario."

One Halloween party I went to had a black party goer go as Superman and kick the crap out (fakely) two people dressed as the Klan.

They'd arranged it ahead of time.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 2nd 2019 at 9:55:34 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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