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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269701: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:03:48 PM

I think the Cherokee Nation took the opportunity to make a point which wouldn't have gotten any airtime normally.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#269702: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:05:05 PM

I want to take the time to apologize for reigniting an old, contentious debate. It wasn't my intention, I swear.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#269703: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:07:44 PM

[up][up]Like, I get that maybe she shouldn't have responded to Trump. And that even claiming a minor ancestrality can be misconstructed and/or misinterpreted, so she shouldn't have done it either (even if ti was on a minor form years ago). If this was what she was being criticized for than fine, she should apologize for it. Native Americans already have to deal with enough people claiming native nationality that even someone accidentally being interpreted at doing so is annoying. But that is a very different complaint than the ones that are actually being thrown at Warren, which is kinda bullshit.

So, yeah, it is understandable that they want to make that point, and that the Warren debate is a good avenue for that. But misconstructing her words to make it sound worse than it is is still shitty.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#269704: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:14:46 PM

Out of curiosity, what did she actually apologize for? What was her word choice?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#269705: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:15:27 PM

Or to put it differently: Nobody is claiming that what the Cherokee are complaining about is not in general a problem. Nobody says that it isn't a touchy subject. That doesn't mean that they are right to accuse a woman of claiming native American Ancestry after she did the exact opposite, hence making itself an instrument of rightwing propaganda is anything one should either applaud or defend.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#269706: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:23:37 PM

[up][up]Not known. It was a private call to the Cherokee leadership.

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#269707: Feb 1st 2019 at 2:29:15 PM

I just want to point out that Warren actually does have some overlap with Bernie's supporters, considering they have similar policies on healthcare, taxes, and environmental protection. Personally, I do like both candidates for a number of reasons, but Warren's weak responses to criticisms and trolls definitely doesn't help her case for being the Democratic nominee.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
SandersSupporter Since: Jan, 2019
#269708: Feb 1st 2019 at 3:10:26 PM

I'll definitely consider supporting her if she runs. I'll have to do more research on where she and Sanders differ before I can say which is better. It would certainly be nice to be able to support a woman for the nomination and thus avoid the nonsense accusations of sexism the Sanders-style left was smeared with last time.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269709: Feb 1st 2019 at 4:04:34 PM

There's a blind spot to a lot of DNC supporters that their favored candidates have adopted Bernie positions.

(or the Bernie positions weren't that different to begin with)

He's that radioactive to some that they ignore he's fairly mainstream now.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#269710: Feb 1st 2019 at 4:06:20 PM

Now? My understanding had always been that Clinton and Sanders had nearly identical platforms in 2016. Given that I'd think they were mainstream even when Bernie himself wasn't.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#269711: Feb 1st 2019 at 4:10:13 PM

Its those parts that weren't identical that stick out though. Medicare-for-All is the last thing I'd call mainstream before Sanders made it his rallying cry in 2016.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269712: Feb 1st 2019 at 5:43:15 PM

Crossposting to the Racism thread.

Friendly reminder that the FBI is not your friend.

For those who don't want to use the link, after a White Supremacist rally in 2016 in which several White Supremacists stabbed counter-protesters, the Sacramento police brought charges - against the counter-protesters. Additionally, thee FBI opened a Domestic Terrorism - Anarchic Extremist investigation into one of the civil rights groups, By Any Means Necesary, and opened surveillance against them. While they never brought the group to court, "evidence" against them included advocacy against Rape and Sexual assault.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 1st 2019 at 8:43:39 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#269713: Feb 1st 2019 at 5:54:47 PM

[up] According to Wikipedia, the group is a militant far left antifa group.

The Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration & Immigrant Rights, and Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary, commonly shortened to By Any Means Necessary (BAMN), is a militant American far-left group that organizes and participates in protests, political violence, and litigation to achieve its aims.

Edited by megaeliz on Feb 1st 2019 at 9:04:38 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#269714: Feb 1st 2019 at 5:59:53 PM

That Sacramento police thing sounds interesting/horrible though, is there more to that story or what?

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#269716: Feb 1st 2019 at 6:24:20 PM

Here's the Wikipedia Article on it.

A neo-Nazi group called the Traditionalist Workers Party (TWP) had a permit for a rally on the west steps of the capitol building. They were joined by their affiliate, Golden State Skinheads (GSS).

Several groups led by Antifa (Anti-Fascist Action) Sacramento and BAMN (By Any Means Necessary) organized a counter protest. BAMN issued a statement saying that "collective power through mass militant direct action can shut these Nazis down and deal the fascists and white-supremacists a decisive tactical defeat" Antifa Sacramento stated that fighting fascism was not a political duty, but a moral one, and called for direct action against them.

Anti-fascist protesters started arriving around 9:00 a.m. and just before 11:00 a.m. they confronted a TV crew, shouting "no cameras" at reporter Mike Luery of KCRA and the cameraman. The protesters grabbed Luery's mic and attempted to grab the camera.

Just before the TWP rally was scheduled to begin around noon, about 300 or more anarchists and other counter-protesters confronted the group. Members of the counter-protesters wore masks and used wooden bats, sticks, fireworks, and other weapons. A few people carried knives, though which side brought the knives used in the subsequent stabbings is unknown. About 400 people were involved in the violence. Ten people were hospitalized, all for multiple stabbing and laceration wounds,[ including two in critical life-threatening condition. Only one of the TWP and GSS members was stabbed. The capitol was locked down and streets were closed. Over 100 police officers responded in riot gear and on horseback. They used rubber pellets and pepper-spray balls.

Matthew Heimbach, the chairman of the TWP, said they expected violence, although they planned the rally to be peaceful. TWP sent about 30 people together with Golden State Skinheads.

Yvette Felarca, an organizer for BAMN stated that "mass militant action, with an integrated group of people" was used to shut down white nationalists. Felarca was filmed punching a man at the protests.

Edited by megaeliz on Feb 1st 2019 at 9:36:33 AM

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#269717: Feb 1st 2019 at 6:53:18 PM

Uh, not to seem like I'm pressing the panic button, but this definitely doesn't sound good: Trump Administration Set to Suspend U.S. Nuclear Treaty With Russia
Trump has repeatedly complained that the US ability to nuke the entire world 3x over isn't enough penis compensation for him. Regardless of whether this is a good decision or not, I'd wager that's his reasoning behind it.
Russia has been breaking the treaty since the turn of the decade and waving it in the United States face, a treaty is no good if the other end isn't going to uphold it
What have they been doing? Because silly me, I thought something like Russia increasing their nuclear stockpile would have made the news.
I don’t think a full scale nuclear exchange would actually kill every human on Earth. There would definitely be people around after, and there would probably even be enough Americans and Russians left for the “winner” to be a subject of interest.
I think that would depend on exactly what kind of bombing plan went on; it's possible that humanity might survive in some isolated pockets of the world, but a major no-holds-launch would kill at least 90% of humanity, either directly (counting radiation fallout) or through after-effects (such as starvation and disease from the total breakdown of our technological society).
Out of interest, do people run for President just for exposure/experience? Or any other motive other than actually trying to win the thing?
There probably are some who do; I know it was a joke in 2016 that the GOP primaries included a few running as their pre-interview for Faux News.
Pat Buchanan was a blatantly racist old ogre.
*looks at Trump* And ... the difference there is ... what, exactly?
Poland, for example, might be happy to host a battery of American nukes.
Didn't Poland try to get a NATO base in their country while Obama was in office?
Bernie and Warren aren't anything alike,least I don't view them as having enough in common.
Funny, because a lot of the pro-Bernie crowd in early 2016 was hoping he'd pick Warren as his VP when he inevitably crushed $hillary in the primary.Disclaimer 

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269718: Feb 1st 2019 at 6:54:33 PM

[up][up] ...Seriously though, the FBI said the KKK were the victims and whitewashed their past atrocities, and you keep trying to bring the discussion to BAMN?

Also, the Wikipedia article seems rather biased. It seems rather clear that the White supremicists were the ones who brought the knives, as it was mostly counter-protestors that were stabbed, and the Guardian article mentions them having knives. The wikipedia article, on the other hand, tries to claim that it "wasn't known" who brought the knives.

It also examines cases of militant rhetoric from the Left side, but ignores the TWP and the Skinheads themselves. Their rhetoric, by definition as white supremacists, is violent in nature. Moreover, it doesn't mention any of the TWP rhetoric in the lead up, instead only trusting a single assertion by a neo-Nazi that they would "totally" have been peaceful.

Pardon me if I'm skeptical that this is a more important part of the story...

Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 1st 2019 at 9:56:48 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#269719: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:11:44 PM

Cross posting is frowned upon. Let's keep this discussion in the Racism thread, for those who are interested in pursuing it. The discussion on this incident starts here.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Imca (Veteran)
#269720: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:15:38 PM

[up][up][up] Deploying intermediate range weapons that could threaten europe, Pentagon even confirmed as such 2 years ago

With all the chaos going on right now, this kind of stuff is easy to miss especially since IIRC at the time that it was 100% confirmed and not just an open secret, North Korea was in the lime light.

Edited by Imca on Feb 1st 2019 at 7:16:01 AM

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269721: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:17:18 PM

[up][up] Gotcha.

[up] Russia was breaking the treaty? That's not a surprise, all things considered...

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#269722: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:22:31 PM

Keeping House Democrats unified

As House Speaker Nancy Pelosi waged her high-profile shutdown standoff with President Trump, she was working behind the scenes on an even more delicate task — keeping her big, restless and inexperienced caucus on the same page.

During her first month leading the new Democratic majority, Pelosi (D-Calif.) has doled out a record number of subcommittee gavels to new members, while encouraging others to take leading roles on the political front lines. Meanwhile, she firmed up support among old stalwarts with choice committee assignments while moving quickly to calm jittery freshmen.

I like to think Pelosi just pops into somebody's office, tells them they're on this or that committee, and leaves for the next representative without ever stopping.

What has so far emerged is a mutual respect between party factions that has belied predictions of the kind of ideological strife that bedeviled Republicans during their previous eight-year House majority.

This is what happens when you have a Speaker with a spine and a faction whose response to everything isn't "No." Amazing what can be accomplished when reasonable people work together.

In particular, a predicted “herbal tea party” of young far-left Democrats have instead emerged as some of Pelosi’s loudest allies and trusted messengers for the party leadership. If anything, a larger group of moderate Democrats who unseated Republicans in Trump-voting districts have proved to be the bigger management challenge for Pelosi.

I feel like the media confused progressive Democrats for Green nuts.

Late last month, with the shutdown still in full swing, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) — the unquestioned left-wing star of the freshman class — rose behind closed doors in a caucus meeting to describe how a group of freshmen women had staged a well-publicized march to find Senate Majority Leader Mitch Mc Connell (R-Ky.). With some moderate members representing Trump districts quietly questioning the party’s no-border-wall strategy, she urged her colleagues to keep their fire trained on Mc Connell — not on fellow Democrats.

Hours later, Pelosi’s office sent out a release echoing that view and promoting the social media hashtag “#Wheres Mitch” that the freshmen had publicized.

"It takes the wisdom of the elders and young people's energy."

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#269723: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:23:34 PM

[up][up][up]Hell, we found out even before that. There were talks of Obama pondering whether he should end the treaty as a result.

Edited by kkhohoho on Feb 1st 2019 at 9:24:10 AM

Imca (Veteran)
#269724: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:31:37 PM

[up] Yup, hence why I said turn of the decade, and clarified thats when it was confirmed, not just an "open secret"

[up][up][up] Yes, which is why I called it stoped clock syndrome, not a reason to panic.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#269725: Feb 1st 2019 at 7:43:56 PM

Deploying intermediate range weapons that could threaten europe, Pentagon even confirmed as such 2 years ago
Thank you, I was completely unaware of this.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

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