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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269201: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:21:52 AM

Yeah, that attitude is a little unbelievable.

I don’t think anyone is saying the US has a perfect record on interventionism here, but that doesn’t mean we should just back out and leave the world to its own devices. It’s a global world, that’s not how it works any more. There’s obvious, gigantic room for improvement but this is what we’re working with and as far as we can tell it’s the best option we have.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 29th 2019 at 9:23:45 AM

They should have sent a poet.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269202: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:22:55 AM

Alright. Lets move on. Bolton showed a notepad referencing troops being sent to Colombia, so the crisis in Venezuela now does actually have a USA dimension to it.

[down]Robrecht, thee mod's asked us to please stop.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jan 29th 2019 at 12:25:10 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#269203: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:23:38 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Angry gets shit done.
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#269204: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:24:42 AM

[up]x3 I mean, 'the best option we have' doesn't seem much different to when Great Britain was doing the same thing, and I think we officially recognize that as far as the historical record is concerned, that was a very not-great time.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269205: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:24:46 AM

Well,that's concerning,what is the intended goal behind sending the troops in?I assume it's a show of force more then anything else

[up][up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 29th 2019 at 5:25:22 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SandersSupporter Since: Jan, 2019
#269206: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:25:01 AM

@Ultimatum: From what I've seen, anyone who wants to advocate anti-interventionism or point out that there's corruption in both parties had better clarify where they stand right up front or else they'll be slandered as a Trump supporter. As for WWII, that was the last time a US military intervention made a positive difference and it was about seven decades ago.

Let's come to conclusions based on what happens when we intervene NOW. Toppling the single dictators who led all of Afghanistan and Iraq led to them being replaced by a bunch of warring dictators controlling various different parts of each country. There's also ISIS and a break-off faction of Al-Qaeda controlling parts of Syria because Assad has lost control of those parts (God knows how much worse that situation will get if we topple Assad). That's not even getting into civilian deaths from US drones.

Also, do a Google search for "US provides military assistance to 73 percent of world's dictatorships" and click on the first result.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269207: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:26:32 AM

[up][up][up][up] Oh, gee, there’s a super cool comparison to draw. Are you sure that’s the insinuation you want to make there?

[up][up][up] I think there’s a pretty significant difference between US interventionism today and British imperialism at its height. Arguably we’re doing a much better job of it, from both a practical and moral standpoint, though it’s not really a fair comparison.

[up] Googled it, those sources are kind of insane. Pro-Russia leftism is a really strange territory.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 29th 2019 at 9:30:39 AM

They should have sent a poet.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269208: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:27:07 AM

[up][up] Please stop shooting the message.

Also, that first point's not true in the slightest, we've backed the Kurds in Syria and we rescued Kuwait from annexation, surely those are positives.

And if you want to make the point that our intervention is bad, maybe please stop trying to justify Assad.

[down] Got it.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jan 29th 2019 at 12:28:34 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269209: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:27:28 AM

We've moved on to Azure Paladin news about Bolton's notepad

[up][up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 29th 2019 at 5:28:13 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269210: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:28:43 AM

Also, do a Google search for "US provides military assistance to 73 percent of world's dictatorships" and click on the first result.

Your position is fundamentally hypocritical, either we should employ interventionism to spread democracy or we shouldn't.

And if we shouldn't then you have no right to complain that we work with dictatorships, the world is interconnected and as such, we need to either tolerate local actors or remove them. And when removal is not an option then sometimes cooperation is the better option.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#269211: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:29:56 AM

I mean, speaking as an American, Robretcht’s sentiment was more or less my initial reaction. There does seem to be a lack of self-awareness here.

Oh God! Natural light!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#269212: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:31:28 AM

No one is advocating blind patriotism.

The general consensus here in favor of an interventionist foreign policy, seems to be that, since America’s actions don’t exist in a vacuum, if we become isolationist, then other countries with imperialist aspirations (aka Russia and China) will happily take our place.

Edited by megaeliz on Jan 29th 2019 at 12:34:12 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269213: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:31:32 AM

I'm just stuck trying to decide if Bolton deliberately showed the note pad about troop movements,not a great idea to advertise their deployment in advance

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#269214: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:31:49 AM

Oh, gee, there’s a super cool comparison to draw. Are you sure that’s the insinuation you want to make there?

Yup. Although it's not the insinuation you think.

Any way...

The general consensus seems to be that, since America’s actions don’t exist in a vacuum, if we become isolationist, then other countries with imperialist aspirations will happily take our place.

This much is true, but there's a big difference between being isolationist and being imperialists. The US does pretty much all its interventions on the basis of 'securing our interests', rather than humanitarian grounds.

Edited by Robrecht on Jan 29th 2019 at 6:37:34 PM

Angry gets shit done.
SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#269215: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:33:17 AM

[up][up] That is the thing with Trump's administration. It's hard to know what is going on with them.

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#269216: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:34:04 AM

I think Bolton leaked it because he couldn't sell the idea to Trump

"You can reply to this Message!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269217: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:34:51 AM

if Mandro sees troop movements he'll think they're being invaded and that's going to lead to panic and paranoia

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#269218: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:35:22 AM

Everyone, please stop. You're all going to get yourself thumped at this rate.

As for the notepad, I think it was deliberate. Probably to try to put some pressure on Maduro.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269219: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:35:27 AM

Let's add another mod to the "move on from this" counter.

Are we really going to need all of us to make a post?

SandersSupporter Since: Jan, 2019
#269220: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:39:19 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269221: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:39:46 AM

At the moment Maduro is probably seeing enemies everywhere and nowhere,i don;t envy his position in the slightest

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269222: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:40:51 AM

[up]Nor sympathy either. Maduro made his bed. He can lie in it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269223: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:44:08 AM

Well it was a bed prepared by Hugo Chávez,makes me wonder what the situation would like if he was still alive,probably still a shitty situation

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269224: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:44:35 AM

Hopefully, the notepad is just a threat, I don't trust this administration to launch any kind of intervention in Venezuela.

But yes, Maduro absolutely deserves anything he gets.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269225: Jan 29th 2019 at 9:46:12 AM

Oh jeez I think they thumped the wrong posts!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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