TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#269151: Jan 29th 2019 at 5:41:53 AM

American interventionism is, like defecation, a necessity.

Edit: What a page topper, wow. grin

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 29th 2019 at 8:42:17 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269152: Jan 29th 2019 at 5:54:59 AM

Well,not quite as necessary as taking a shit,it's more like going to the dentist,nobody wants to go but in the end the problem will get larger if you dont

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#269153: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:17:49 AM

It doesn't mean you have to like it, either.

I'd rather no country in the world have such a big enough stick that they can just push everyone around like that whenever they feel like it - but that's not feasible in today's world, so instead I want the guy with the stick to make up his mind and stop fucking it up.

Yes, I have a very negative view of Usonian interventionism, I live in a country that three-decades ago got out of a vicious military dictatorship which had the full support of the US goverment, so forgive me if I think the title of "Protactor of the Free World" hasn't exactly been earned.

It's very easy to unconditionally support interventionism when you don't have to deal with the negative repercussions yourself, I'm sure you'll agree.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 29th 2019 at 11:27:21 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#269154: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:21:28 AM

I swear the last few pages have gone right into "the USA is qualitively special and superior, isn't it great". Which is kind of at odds with Cold War diplomacy that involved supporting as many military dictatorships as possible.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269155: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:49:36 AM

Yeah,they're far far from being perfect,but at least they have the biggest stick and not someone else,someone who could do a lot worse then propping up dictatorships

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#269156: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:03:49 AM

This Howard Schultz guy had better not gain any traction with the public. The last thing we need is for the Democratic vote to split and Trump wins again in 2020.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#269157: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:07:35 AM

I'm not sure what Schultz is trying to appeal to. He's marketed himself as anti-Trump, so there goes the majority of the Republican base, but he's also a former CEO running on a fiscally conservative platform, so the Democrats won't be clamoring to support either (and that's before you consider them calling him a Trump patsy by default for running in the first place).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#269158: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:08:07 AM

To be fair it's far from clear that he would split the Democratic vote.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269159: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:09:09 AM

Judging from the reaction so far including heckling at a book sighing I don't think he will,people seem to be a little more wary after Trump's election,he's not got the popular image Trump had,in fact compared to Trump he's largely unknown

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#269160: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:10:57 AM

I haven't read to deeply into the platform this Schultz guy has (assuming he even has decided on one this early on) but changing Trump for him does feel like switching a dog turd for a cat's: either way, it stinks.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#269161: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:00:51 AM

I wanted to note that the United States is poised to emphasize interventionism and "World Policing" in a way that no other nation on Earth is. We have one very fundamental advantage that must not be understated:

No natural boundaries shared with a threatening competitor.

Even setting aside the universal deterrent that is nuclear weapons, do you know how hard it is to launch a military invasion of the United States? We are half a planet away from everyone who might even consider it, surrounded by vast oceans on both sides. It takes a lot of groundwork, a lot of logistics, and a lot of diplomacy with nations that may or may not even care about what you're trying to do to even get military forces in place near us.

We don't have theatrics like Russia doing practice drills on our border to intimidate us. We don't have Chinese troops accidentally wandering in from Canada and whoops, they took over that small town TOTES BY MISTAKE LOL. We don't have "test" missiles sailing uncomfortably close to New Orleans right before a diplomatic meeting. It's not a thing. It's probably never gonna be a thing.

Our entire nation is a nerve center for resource-building on a scale that no other nation in the world possesses, accompanied by a vast network of staging grounds for deployment filtered throughout the African and Eurasian continents. You can say, "Well, someone else should be responsible for the world," but who? Who is better equipped than us? Who else has the sheer wealth of opportunity and capability provided both by our natural barriers and existing diplomatic connections?

Did you know that the U.S. Dollar has replaced the Gold Standard for much of the world? Most of the global economy is pegged to us, and not to gold. That's how thoroughly, inseparably integrated our country is with the world as a whole. Who is better equipped than us?

This is why I think that we need to strengthen the relationship between the United States and the United Nations. We should not be trying to govern the rest of the world. We are not kings of the planet Earth, nor should we be. But we have one of the largest militaries in the world, infinite capacity to use it, and a near-total immunity to invasion from a foreign power; we should be the U.N.'s fist.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 29th 2019 at 9:03:12 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269162: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:03:47 AM

[up] And I’ll add that the UN desperately needs a fist, if it’s to be an effective form of supranational governance.

They should have sent a poet.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#269163: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:22:49 AM

But at which point does the US stops being the UN's fist and becomes its boss?

Everything you said is why I don't exactly like the Messiah Complex the US has, there's really no one that can hold them accountable, so if they fuck it, or more likely, intervene with less than benevolent intentions, there's no way to twist its nipples and make them fix the resulting mess.

And it rarely has benevolent intention: does anyone here seriously believe the US would so much as lift a finger to do anything to the Taliban human rights violations if it was pro-USA?

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 29th 2019 at 1:23:33 PM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#269164: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:22:51 AM

Republicans may block Trump from another shutdown – The Senate GOP has no appetite for another political debacle and is pushing Trump away from closing the government again.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/28/government-shutdown-republicans-trump-1133101

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269165: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:26:33 AM

I'll believe it when I see it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SandersSupporter Since: Jan, 2019
#269166: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:34:53 AM

The world would be better off without US intervention; it rarely makes things significantly better and always results in civilian deaths. I hope our next president is a non-interventionist Democrat. That's at least one thing Tulsi Gabbard is right about. The UN probably shouldn't be an actual government, either. We're talking about a group that once put Libiya in charge of the human rights council and I'm pretty sure they put Saudi Arabia on the council at one point too.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269167: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:37:13 AM

So your literally called Sanders Supporter..sock puppet or troll I wonder..

edit:

> The world would be better off without US intervention

Sure,go read up on your histories,especially World War 2 and get back to us

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 29th 2019 at 4:38:24 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#269168: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:40:44 AM

I don't disagree we need interventionism of some capacity.

Just not the mistake of assuming some innate moral superiority.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#269169: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:41:36 AM

[up][up]We seriously screwed over Central and South America to help American business interests. WWII isn’t a get out of jail free card.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 29th 2019 at 11:41:48 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#269170: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:43:51 AM

I should point out that the repercussions of the US's support for military dictatorships in Latin America are still with us.

Like Brazil's current president, who says the dictatorship's mistake was "that they tortured instead of killing".

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 29th 2019 at 12:44:09 PM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#269171: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:44:07 AM

[up][up]Yeah. Nevermind Hiroshima.

Edited by kkhohoho on Jan 29th 2019 at 10:44:21 AM

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#269172: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:44:45 AM

The U.N. does not need a goddamn fist, because the U.N. is not a goddamn supra-national government. It's a diplomatic body created for the express purpose of mediating disputes between nations to prevent war.

Even the UN Peacekeepers, the UN's actual 'fist', are only armed as a precaution against further fighting.

Angry gets shit done.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269173: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:45:38 AM

We seriously screwed over Central and South America to help American business interests. WWII isn’t a get out of jail free card.

Irrelevant, their claim that the world would be a better place if the US never intervened is fundamentally delusional and counterfactual.

At best the world would be so different that saying it would be better is unfounded, at worst it could've boosted the Axis and resulted in at the very least a longer WW 2.

Yeah. Nevermind Hiroshima.

Hiroshima was perfectly justified, Japan started the war and we ended it.

Blame the Imperial Japanese government, the US has zero responsibility for their war.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 29th 2019 at 11:47:27 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#269174: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:50:27 AM

If nothing else it's not really applicable in the context of US interventionism. Whatever else it was, it was an act of war committed during a war.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 29th 2019 at 9:51:25 AM

SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#269175: Jan 29th 2019 at 8:52:45 AM

Damn, back then the world and a lot of its own people condemn America for not doing intervention in Rwanda. And now, a lot of people are all America shouldn't do anything. Of course, when a lot of people die later that is obviously and definitely what will happen, the same people are going America is a heartless country that left others to die like a dog. America just can't win, huh?

I guess we all should put all our faith in Russia and China. Nothing goes wrong when they are in charge.

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.

Total posts: 417,856
Top