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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269126: Jan 29th 2019 at 2:45:40 AM

$1.5 trillion U.S. tax cut has no major impact on business capex plans: survey

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration’s $1.5 trillion cut tax package appeared to have no major impact on businesses’ capital investment or hiring plans, according to a survey released a year after the biggest overhaul of the U.S. tax code in more than 30 years.

The National Association of Business Economics’ (NABE) quarterly business conditions poll published on Monday found that while some companies reported accelerating investments because of lower corporate taxes, 84 percent of respondents said they had not changed plans. That compares to 81 percent in the previous survey published in October.

The White House had predicted that the massive fiscal stimulus package, marked by the reduction in the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent, would boost business spending and job growth. The tax cuts came into effect in January 2018.

Not all that surprising, really.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#269127: Jan 29th 2019 at 2:46:19 AM

Trump might try another shutdown but senate republicans were already breaking ranks, if he does try it one can expect that senate republicans will fold relatively quickly and Trump will get his veto overridden.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269128: Jan 29th 2019 at 2:58:35 AM

A shitty job by the standards of who? As mentioned above this is the safest and most prosperous era in recorded human history, by all accounts the US-led world order has been doing decently.

Obviously there’s room for improvement, but that goes without saying. It’s a bit of Saturday-morning quarterbacking though.

The issue is taken from the moral perspective as the United States has frequently acted not with the intention of promoting world peace and stabiliy but often in the service less ignoable goals. Protection of its financial interests have involved the supporting of brutal dictatorships (Saudi Arabia is an easy answer but also Pinochet). These actions don't result in the long-term stability of regions but very often generate resentment if not outright hatred from the public. You can serve as the world's policeman, the creator of an American hegemon, or be an isolationist but can't be all three or even two.

Also, let’s never give Dennis Rodman a Nobel Prize. A celebrity kissing a fame-hungry dictator’s ass is no accomplishment.

Kissing the asses of dictators and monsters is how you do diplomacy with unreasonable people.

How would you suggest negotiating with a monster?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#269129: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:04:06 AM

You don't, generally.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269130: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:06:49 AM

[up][up]It's kind of odd that you think poorly of the USA backing the likes of the House of Saud while thinking we ought to kiss up to Kim Jong Un.

Disgusted, but not surprised
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269131: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:07:21 AM

[up][up][up] Are you suggesting the world would have perhaps been better off with another superpower in the top spot? The US is far from perfect, but it’s also the best option of the bunch by a mile. From a moral perspective the US is really the only choice.

And yeah, I’m gonna go with don’t. What Dennis Rodman did was shameless pandering, not diplomacy. He didn’t open up relations or change policy, he just gave KJU the media and celebrity recognition he so desperately craves.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 29th 2019 at 3:09:45 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Imca (Veteran)
#269132: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:15:44 AM

[up] I dont know I think I would take a modern Europe over Amercia....

Buuut that just isn't feasible.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269133: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:17:50 AM

That's an eye-rolling dodge, archon and beneath you.

There's no "either or" when you say America shouldn't behave as a monster that it's okay because the other guy would be worse.

The answer is not to be a monster.

It's kind of odd that you think poorly of the USA backing the likes of the House of Saud while thinking we ought to kiss up to Kim Jong Un. [

I'm not even sure of the logic of this sentence. Are you saying engaging in diplomacy and peacemaking is the same as supporting murderous dictators?

I favor nonviolent solutions and diplomacy because I want to be different from the dictators and strong men of the world.

We also need to condemn and use soft power to undermine dictators as well not support their regimes. Peaceful transitions of power whenever possible.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 29th 2019 at 3:21:46 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269134: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:21:18 AM

[up]In both cases people are "kissing up" to awful people. Yet you condemn one case while lauding the other as worthy of a Nobel Prize.

And no, you aren't different if you enable and flatter a dictator. That just makes you a kiss-ass.

Edited by M84 on Jan 29th 2019 at 7:21:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269135: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:23:30 AM

If you find giving weapons, money, recognition, and material support to Saudi Arabia in oppressing foreign nations as well as helping them maintain their dictatorship as the same as talking politely as well as differentially to maintain diplomatic relations.

I think that's fundamentally wrong.

Diplomacy means that you need to suck in your disgust of mass murdering pieces of shit and negotiate fairly with them even if they're the worst slime of the universe. Because you're doing it for the greater good.

That doesn't mean you help them do evil. It's to PREVENT evil.

The United States should always behave with the utmost dignity and fair handedness while working for the promotion of human rights as well as democracy.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 29th 2019 at 3:26:30 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269136: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:24:31 AM

[up]And you think that kissing up to evil people is the way to prevent evil?

Are you serious?

By that logic everyone here should be supporting and kissing up to Trump and the GOP.

Edited by M84 on Jan 29th 2019 at 7:25:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269137: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:26:18 AM

I'm looking at you like you're speaking Babylonian.

Seriously.

Diplomacy is all about putting on the face of smiles and respect when dealing with monsters.

What do you think it is?

By that logic everyone here should be supporting and kissing up to Trump and the GOP.

Again, your statement "supporting" means you don't understand or want to incorporate my statement since my position is you should never enable dictators. You do have to negotiate with them and speak their language because a conversation that saves lives is superior to bullets.

You have to be the adult in the room with Trump.

You can't descend to his level.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 29th 2019 at 3:28:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269138: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:29:36 AM

[up]And you think that is what Rodman did with Kim Jong Un? You think he deserves a Nobel Prize for acting buddy buddy with him?

You really think that awful people will decide to be less awful if everyone else pretends they aren't horrible people? All that does is encourage them to keep being awful.

That's how we get people like Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.

Edited by M84 on Jan 29th 2019 at 7:34:01 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#269139: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:32:43 AM

I'm of the opinion that, in an ideal world, the USA wouldn't be a lone superpower world police. In an ideal world, the United Nations would rule it, with all of the top nations having equal power to democratically decide what should be done about countries with dictators or terrorism. That way, if one of the superpowers fell to fascism (like the USA is threatening to now), the remaining superpowers could put them in check.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269140: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:35:00 AM

[up]That would require the UN to have actual hard power. But a major reason the UN continues to exist is precisely because it does not have hard power. Damn near every country would drop it like a hot potato if they thought it could threaten their sovereignty.

Edited by M84 on Jan 29th 2019 at 7:35:29 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269141: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:35:05 AM

I think Rodman managed to salvage a peace process that was destroyed by Trump and Kim Jung playing telephone.

Jung is a murderer, an oppressor of religion, an oppressor of innocents, and a criminal of epic proportions.

Trump is a rapist, racist, traitor to his country, and spoiled child.

Unfortunately, they have the lives of millions of people in their hands. Whatever brings us closer to freeing the people of North Korea from their oppression is an objective good thing. The best way to do that is Moon Jae-in's flattering and outreach to Jung (which Rodman is just a kind or ridiculous Reality Is Unrealistic exaggeration of) that can potentially set the two nations on the road to reunification.

A reunification that will hopefully restore human rights to the oppressed people there—and that will require, yes, flattering and pandering to a monster.

Is it not better than a military solution?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 29th 2019 at 3:36:04 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#269142: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:35:43 AM

Rodman kissing up to Kim Jong-Un was not diplomacy or negotiation. What did he actually accomplish?

Kissing the asses of dictators and monsters is how you do diplomacy with unreasonable people.
No it isn't. Otherwise, David Lloyd George would have been successful in stopping WW 2 when he kissed Hitler's ass.

Also, I agree with Imca - I'd prefer the EU over the US as a superpower, and partially because they seem to be sensible enough to not want that position in the first place.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 29th 2019 at 11:37:58 AM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269143: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:36:47 AM

Rodman kissing up to Kim Jong-Un was not diplomacy or negotiation. What did he actually accomplish?

Got two of George Orwell's pigs back at the table with an adult?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#269144: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:39:11 AM

The way one does "negotiation" with a monster is to make it clear that you aren't going to put up with their bullshit and be in a position where they can't ignore you. You make it clear that you aren't going to pander to their childish demands. If they want to be treated like an adult, they have to swallow their pride and act like an adult.

That's what it means to be the "adult" in the room.

[up][up]The EU isn't going to be in any position to do that anytime soon anyway. They are still far from coming to an agreement on an EU army, for one thing.

Edited by M84 on Jan 29th 2019 at 7:41:22 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#269145: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:45:50 AM

[up][up] Except nothing actully happened at the table, nothing has changed with respect to Korea except a few fig leaves that only relate to the South Korean president’s actions and have nothing to do with Rodman.

The best that can be said about Rodman is that he was able to use his pre-existing relationship with Kim to bring about talks that changed nothing on the Korean pernisula other than giving North Korea a symbolic win and getting Trump not to start a war.

Stopping Trump stating a war isn’t worth of a Nobel peace prize, we don’t have enough prizes to give them out for that.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#269146: Jan 29th 2019 at 3:59:13 AM

Oh, I'm not saying the EU realistically would become one soon. They'd need to be a lot further along the route to "superstate" first.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269147: Jan 29th 2019 at 4:39:13 AM

Ultimatums like that are not the only way or even most effective. However, way too often people talk a big game then arm the slime of humanity with whatever they want as long as it means obedience.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 29th 2019 at 4:39:58 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269148: Jan 29th 2019 at 4:50:53 AM

That was hardly a dodge, Charles. I’m sure we can all admit here the US is far from perfect, but the ultimate implication of that line of criticism is always that we shouldn’t be trying at all, which is a far worse course than trying and failing. Carrying water for isolationists isn’t exactly productive.

I’d also argue the degree of failure isn’t anywhere near as severe as you’re making it out to be, again considering the relative safety and prosperity of our era.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 29th 2019 at 4:52:58 AM

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269149: Jan 29th 2019 at 4:56:42 AM

My argument is more that the United States needs to be held accountable for its actions and to make sure that the people who have used its military and power behind the scenes to support dictatorships are forced to pay for that.

But that has as much happening as a 2nd Moon Landing this year.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269150: Jan 29th 2019 at 5:23:29 AM

Ultimately the best way negotiate with any warlike country (calling them monsters isn't very diplomatic you see) is with a significant deterrent,these deterrents have worked wonders in preventing World War 3 and as noted above have led to periods of prosperity and peace

I'm having trouble following Charles's argument from there so if he could offer a summary that would be nice

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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