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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
To be fair, I would say that Trump is bad on a more individual level than the specific policies he supports. His general lack of personal virtue is bad in ways that even his specific policies are not. Trump is, to some extent, a separate problem from even his own political believes.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Jan 28th 2019 at 3:59:52 AM
Leviticus 19:34Trump is merely a symptom of a larger problem affecting US society (and the West at large, some would argue).
Even if you were to take him out of the equation, all the shitheads that think like him and put him in power are still going to be there, raising hell.
Man, I used to love Steve Universe.
Regardless, I agree with you 100%
Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:21:35 AM
Trump may be the symptom but right now he's it's embodiment,everything you hate about extremism wears his face and tie,and yes even without Trump you'd still have extremism,but when that extremism is in a position of power over you it can be very easy to see him as it's root,jumping to the conclusion that removing him would banish the illness forever
In other words
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/01/28/day-739/
1/ The partial shutdown – the longest in U.S. history – ended Friday with Trump agreeing to temporarily reopen the government without money for his wall. Trump, however, is threatening to shut down the government again in less than three weeks if Congress can't reach a deal to fund the wall, because he doesn't believe negotiators will strike a deal he could accept. According to acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, Trump will secure border "with or without Congress." (New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal)
2/ The shutdown cost the economy $11 billion, with an estimated $3 billion in economic activity permanently lost. the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected economic growth will slow this year to 2.3%, compared with the 3.1% rate last year, as the benefits of the new tax law begin to fade. Separately, the National Association of Business Economics found that the $1.5 trillion cut tax package has had no major impact on businesses' capital investment or hiring plans. (CNBC / Reuters / Washington Post)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-investment-idUSKCN1PM0B0
3/ Nancy Pelosi invited Trump to give the State of the Union on February 5. Pelosi previously rescinded Trump's invitation to give the address until after the shutdown ended. (Washington Post / Politico / CNBC)
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/28/pelosi-invites-trump-to-hold-state-of-the-union-on-february-5.html
4/ Trump's golf course in New York relied on a dozen undocumented workers while Trump was demanding border wall funding during the shutdown. They were fired midway through the government shutdown. The firings at the New York golf club follow a report from last year about an undocumented worker at Trump's Bedminster golf club in New Jersey. After that story, the company fired the undocumented workers. Trump still owns his businesses, but has given day-to-day control to Trump Jr. and Eric Trump. (Washington Post / NBC News)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-golf-club-fired-12-workers-living-u-s-illegally-n963341
📌 Day 686: An undocumented immigrant has worked as a maid at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, N.J., since 2013 using fake documents to secure employment. After Trump became president, one of her managers told her to get both a new green card and new Social Security card because there were problems with her current ones. When she told the manager that she did not know how to obtain new forgeries, her manager suggested she speak with a maintenance employee to acquire new documents. Her manager lent her the money to replace the one that had "expired." (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html
📌 Day 714: Trump's Bedminster golf club shielded at least one undocumented immigrant from a list of workers vetted by the Secret Service during the 2016 campaign. Emma Torres told a human resources employee that she did not have legal status. The woman replied: "'It's O.K. No problem.' She scratched me off the list." Torres later made sandwiches for Secret Service agents when they began visiting the property. (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/us/trump-golf-club-illegal-immigrant-employee.html
poll/ 48% of Americans say they have no confidence "at all" in Trump. 64% also have no confidence in Trump to make the right decisions for the future of the country. (ABC News)
poll/ 63% of Americans believe the country is "off on the wrong track" while to 28% believe it's "headed in the right direction." 50% blame Trump for the shutdown. (NBC News / Wall Street Journal)
poll/ 60% of Americans say House Democrats should use their authority to obtain and publicly release Trump's tax returns. 46% say Democrats will go too far in investigating Trump, while 34% think they'll handle it about right, with 17% thinking Democrats will not go far enough. (ABC News)
poll/ 57% of Americans support congressional Democrats investigating whether or not Trump's 2016 campaign colluded with Russia, 61% support investigating financial ties between Trump and foreign governments, and 59% support investigating Trump's relationship and communications with Putin. (Washington Post)
poll/ 35% approve of Trump's handling of foreign policy, while 63% disapprove. 76% of Republicans approve of his foreign policy, while just 8% of Democrats do. (Associated Press)
https://apnews.com/0d9271aba67143bcb1a7604459046975
✏️ Notables.
The Trump administration lifted sanctions against three companies owned by Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska. The Treasury Department originally sanctioned Deripaska, six other oligarchs, and their companies in April in response to Russia's "malign activity" around the world. The sanctions against Deripaska himself will remain in effect, but his companies launched a lobbying campaign to argue that the sanctions against aluminum giant Rusal would disrupt the aluminum market and damage U.S. companies. (Reuters / New York Times / Fox News / Bloomberg)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions-idUSKCN1PL0S1
Roger Stone didn't rule out cooperating with Robert Mueller, despite repeatedly pledging his loyalty to Trump. Stone said he'd "have to determine after my attorneys have some discussion" about cooperating with Mueller. He added: "If there's wrongdoing by other people in the campaign that I know about, which I know of none, but if there is I would certainly testify honestly." (ABC News / Reuters / Wall Street Journal)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKCN1PL0PQ
Jerome Corsi, a longtime friend and associate of Stone, said the indictment against Stone is "accurate" and that he will be "happy" to "affirm that if asked to in court." Corsi was identified as "Person 1" in the 24-page federal indictment filed by Mueller against Stone. (CNN / Politico)
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/politics/jerome-corsi-indictment-roger-stone-cnntv/index.html
Trump and Jared Kushner thought firing Michael Flynn would end the "Russia thing," according to Chris Christie's forthcoming book, "Let Me Finish." Christie recalled that Trump told him "this Russia thing is all over now, because I fired Flynn." Trump went on to explain that "Flynn met with the Russians. That was the problem. I fired Flynn. It's over." Kushner added: "That's right, firing Flynn ends the whole Russia thing." (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/27/us/politics/chris-christie-book-trump.html
Trump endorsed states pushing legislation to allow Bible literacy classes in public schools, calling it a "great" idea. (Politico / Washington Post)
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/28/donald-trump-bible-classes-school-1128702
American and Taliban officials have agreed in principle on a framework for a peace deal in Afghanistan. The framework includes a guarantee that the Taliban will prevent Afghan territory from being used by terrorists in exchange for a ceasefire and Taliban talks with the Afghan government. (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/world/asia/taliban-peace-deal-afghanistan.html
The Justice Department accused Huawei of violating U.S. sanctions on Iran and of stealing trade secrets from T-Mobile. Federal prosecutors also filed paperwork to formerly requesting the extradition of Huawei's CFO from Canada. (Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal / CNBC)
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/28/us-files-extradition-request-for-huawei-cfo-meng-wanzhou.html
The Trump administration sanctioned Venezuela's state-owned energy company PDVSA. John Bolton said the actions will block $7 billion in assets and cost the country $11 billion in lost exports during the next year. The sanctions come after Trump last week declared the U.S. would no longer recognize President Nicolás Maduro government, proclaiming opposition leader Juan Guaidó as the rightful "interim president" of Venezuela. (Politico / CNBC / Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal / Washignton Post)
🧐 So Presidential.
Hillary Clinton isn't "closing the doors to the idea of running in 2020." In October, Clinton said she wasn't planning on running, but has reportedly told people "as recently as this week" that she would "like to be president." (The Hill)
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/427156-clinton-not-ruling-out-running-in-2020-report
Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz tweeted that he is "seriously thinking of running for president" as an independent. The billionaire's announcement was mocked by people pointing out that there were better ways of helping the country with his money than by jumping in the race and helping Trump win re-election. Trump tweeted that Schultz "doesn't have the 'guts' to be president." (CBS News / Daily Beast / Politico)
Michael Bloomberg warned that there "is no way an independent" presidential candidate "can win" and would only ensure Trump's reelection. The former New York City mayor is weighing a bid for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination in 2020. (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/28/bloomberg-2020-elections-howard-schultz-1129214
Kamala Harris formally launched her Democratic bid for president, promising to be a fighter "for the people" and to unify a country divided along social, cultural and political lines, saying we're at "an inflection point" in history. She called on Americans to "speak truth about what's happening" in the Trump era. (Los Angeles Times / CNN / New York Times / Washington Post)
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/politics/kamala-harris-2020-presidential-campaign/index.html
Good thing its not good for Afganistan either
Its almost like peace with terible people
doesn't make them not terible people.
To be fair, Maduro is on everyone's shit-list at this point. Except for Russia and China - which speaks volumes about him.
But an invasion is a terribad idea that would cause tons of problems down the line. Given Trump's usual bombast, it's probably just him being The Idiot of Twitter, as usual.
x3 Trump wanting to pull out of Afghanistan isn't a bad thing. Negotiating with the Taliban is. It's like negotiating with the North Vietnamese to pull out of Vietnam - leave the ARVN and the South flapping in the breeze. It's effectively a signal to the Afghan Government that they're on their own from here on out.
If he does it, there's no way it's going to end well. For anyone.
Edited by TechPriest90 on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:49:59 AM
I hold the secrets of the machine.Trump likes to throw around "What if I invaded X?" from time to time. He's looking for a war he can start that will skyrocket him into George W. Bush post-9/11 popularity levels.
The trouble he keeps running into is that the American public has become very skeptical of invading other countries since George W.'s time in office.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Obama repeatedly attempted to negotiate with the Taliban and Hillary planned to as well. Mostly because they are a government and that's the only way to end the war.
They may deserve total destruction as an ideology but its the only way to secure the territory that they have and the rights of the people in it.
The Taliban didn't negotiate with Obama because they thought they could win.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 28th 2019 at 6:59:26 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Its almost like peace with terible people doesn't make them not terible people.
I will point out that I did use "if", I didn't really expect it to be good for Afghanistan but I was uncomfortable with the immediate and sole focus on how it would possibly benefit Trump.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangWith negotiating with terrorists, I'd argue that one often can't. And I don't just mean shouldn't, I mean can't. It's the diplomatic equivalent of fighting a shadow. There isn't much to stop the group from splintering to fight you or just changing its motives to continue.
This is, in general, the big issue with wars-on-concepts. You don't have a win condition, and sometimes you don't even have a lose condition.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:09:40 AM
Leviticus 19:34Its not a GOOD government but it is in control and administrates its own regions in both Afghanistan as well as Pakistan.
They're not going away and wiping them out is not an option.
Using the terrorist label is also not really helpful as plenty of governments have supported terrorists and they have to be dealt with in the interests of peace as well as stability.
Mind you, I consider the Taliban a totalitarian theocratic government that supported Al-Qaeda the terrorist group. They are a North Korea. You can negotiate with them even if it's not a great position for trust and you HAVE to negotiate with them because that's how it is.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:13:44 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
They’re not even really “in control” of the regions it occupies. The various tribes and townships fend for themselves, and occasionally a bunch of guys with guns will show up to shoot at Americans or anyone they deem insufficiently faithful. They don’t have the institutions associated with governance, provide any services of note, or do anything you’d associate with an established government. They fight each other just as much as they fight everyone else. They’re a loosely organized militarized political/religious movement these days more than anything else.
It’s helpful to negotiate with them but calling them a government is overly generous.
Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:20:44 AM
They should have sent a poet.Honestly, my feeling is that if the US backed Afghan government cannot stand on its own after all these years, then it totally deserves to be overrun by the Taliban. Governments exist via the consent of the people, and it seems like the Taliban has been far better at mustering the loyalty of the people then the Afghan government. If the people of Afghanistan want to live under a brutal Theocracy its not our place to tell them otherwise. If the majority truly don't support that, then its up to them to fight for their own country.
The United States has spent 17 years fighting a war without end spending billions upon billions of dollars that should have gone to fund Education, Welfare, or pretty much anything else that does more than create dead bodies. We should never have invaded in the first place, and I'm glad we're leaving (even if this might benefit Trump in some way).
This kind of attitude is why we’ll never win in Afghanistan.
If we can’t commit to a long term solution there won’t be a solution at all. Nation building isn’t a quick and easy process.
I’ll also ask this: does leaving the Middle East a lawless hellhole benefit anyone? It certainly doesn’t benefit us, much less the people actually living there.
Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:32:36 AM
They should have sent a poet.
Why do we need to build other nations? The most successful nations build themselves organically based on the shared culture and history of the people living there. Hell, the Taliban seemed to be doing a fine job of nation building before we blew them to smithereens. It was horrible, misogynist theocracy, but if the people of Afghanistan wanted that, its their business.
And was the Middle East a lawless hellhole before we decided to go bombing nations willy-nilly? Not really. And no, we can't make up for it by staying there even longer, that just continues the (justified) impression that the US is trying to turn the entire area into a collection of client states it can use to exploit the region. Which is has bred even more religious extremism.
Edited by Ludlow on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:41:02 AM
Well first off, wow, what a horrifically offensive thing to say. I guess totalitarian states should just be left alone, because if they can hold power the people must want it right? Forget about the campaigns of cultural genocide, the tens of thousands of Afghan civilians killed in the 90s, the forced starvation, the mass rapes, the Afghan people definitely wanted that. The Middle East was absolutely not in good shape before the US showed up, no matter what your anti-American revisionist histories might try to suggest.
Second off, is the policy you’re advocating for total isolationism? We live in a global world. The problems the Middle East has don’t stay there. From a purely practical view, failed states, especially ones filled with religious extremists, destabilize everyone around them and export terror around the globe, which is less than ideal.
Finally, from an ideological or moral point of view, as the most powerful group of countries on Earth the US and its allies should feel obligated to help those who are less fortunate. Now, this takes more forms than just military intervention, but to say we should just sit by and let people suffer for no good reason strikes me as inhumane, bordering on immoral.
Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:45:33 AM
They should have sent a poet.

Well yeah, but I don't think Protagonist was claiming otherwise.
Their point that Conservative rabid opposition to Democrats intensified under Obama and we should be careful to avoid emulating that (or rather emulating it for the wrong reasons).
Right, but this doesn't contradict their (and my) points.
It's fine to hate Trump and the Republicans but we have to be careful it doesn't become the end, there must be a reason we hate them instead of the hate being the reason.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang