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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#269026: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:48:17 PM

[up][up] Oh, don't get me wrong, USA did a fine job there, it just could have do it better. And yeah, Unit 731 got away with it because USA was stupid.

[down] I don't think anyone is discussing that

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 28th 2019 at 4:50:39 AM

Watch me destroying my country
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#269027: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:48:27 PM

Japan was a military junta before WW 2 with aims to create a new empire in Asia.

They weren't a death cult like the Nazis but they were very blatantly invading nations for the sake of invading nations.

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#269028: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:51:15 PM

The United States diverted large sums of money to rebuilding Iraq and huge amounts was embezzled by Haliburton and other companies.

So, I'd say we have no idea whether it could have worked as it was sabotaged from the beginning.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#269029: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:52:09 PM

[up]x4 One could argue a bit too intense.

One cannot deny that it has given quite the results, though.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#269030: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:52:13 PM

To continue with comparations to the Plan Marshall and Japan's reconstruction post WW 2, well, the point is that the situation in Afghanistan is wildly different than both of them and I wouldn't be surprised that, in a good scenario, what we get is similar to modern Japan (Liveable place but with a considerably amount of social issues compared to the rest of the world).

However, that is preferable to doing nothing. And that is why they have to continue and actually try,

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 28th 2019 at 4:54:20 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269031: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:52:22 PM

I will point out that stability =/= goodness, Japan was stable in a way that Afghanistan was not.

That doesn't mean everything was perfect or even especially good by our standards but there was very much an existing national identity and state institutions to build around.

It's just not a very good comparison for the situation in Afghanistan.

Edit: Mostly [nja]

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 28th 2019 at 4:52:46 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#269032: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:55:33 PM

Yeah, I would agree. This is not WW 2 where we are rebuilding a state from ashes, this is practically building one(s?).

Watch me destroying my country
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#269033: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:56:08 PM

Maybe there isn't really anything to compare to. I won't say the Afghan situation is sui generis, but I can't really think of similar crisis in the past 50 years or so.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#269034: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:56:50 PM

[up][up][up][up] It still wouldn’t have worked. Military infrastructure isn’t what these countries need, and the Halliburton bill-and-hold scandal was wildly overblown anyways.

They should have sent a poet.
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#269035: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:57:43 PM

@ Mufifns

There's the cultural differences to keep in mind as well.

While Japan was, indeed, modernized during the Meiji period, they picked the Prussian model of government, which in turn was highly reactionary and conservative, meant to keep power in the hands of the nobles and the König of Prussia (later the Kaiser of Germany). This allowed the surviving great samurai families to hold onto power, and even today, there's a degree of disconnection between the common folk and the ruling body.

@ Le Garcon

They certainly were on the same level of bloodthirst though, the contempt they had for the other "lesser" east asians was translated into the Rape of Nanking and the Unit 731.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#269036: Jan 28th 2019 at 1:58:46 PM

Dealmakers Dominate Panel Tasked to Reach Border Security Agreement. Apparently we'll see a Super Congress to get border security done.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#269037: Jan 28th 2019 at 2:01:27 PM

Never mind. I made a big claim without sources.

Edited by Oruka on Jan 28th 2019 at 2:05:18 AM

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#269038: Jan 28th 2019 at 2:05:11 PM

Anyone else think this is a bad idea? Who's to say as soon as he makes the speech, he announces he's shutting down the government again?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/28/pelosi-invites-trump-to-hold-state-of-the-union-on-february-5.html?__source=twitter%7Cmain

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#269039: Jan 28th 2019 at 2:14:48 PM

eh, he cannot shut it down on a whim and 5th is not at that deadline again.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#269040: Jan 28th 2019 at 2:31:32 PM

[up][up] I understand your anxiety, But I think your being overly paranoid about this.

Watch Symphogear
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#269041: Jan 28th 2019 at 2:51:08 PM

Okay, I'm usually the first to call people out for being a hit quick on the panic, but he's been open enough about this being a way for him to vent his very real anxiety and not just panic for the masturbatory effects of it.

So lets give him some slack, shall we?

"You can reply to this Message!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#269042: Jan 28th 2019 at 2:59:09 PM

@Le Garcon: I'd actually dispute that-"Death Cult" is actually a pretty accurate description of Japan's military in WWII. Worship of an Emperor, extreme martyrdom culture, glorification of maximum bloodletting in general, etc.

Mind you, the same is basically true of Nazi Germany as well.

Leviticus 19:34
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#269043: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:01:45 PM

[up][up] Thank you.

And I don't mean to cause anyone else any anxiety. I hope I'm wrong. I'm not just worried about myself, you know

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269044: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:18:40 PM

Five Thirty Eight has an extremely good article on how the shutdown and its temporary resolution is a perfect example of Trump's political weaknesses, How President Trump Is Like A Terrible Poker Player

Essentially it describes how the shutdown has gone terribly for Trump and that's entirely his fault, the reason for this is because Trump is fundamentally unable to recognize when it's time to fold and as such he throws himself into no-win situations in which the only choice is to choose the least bad option.

It's a rather fascinating article that I think hits the nail on the head, Trump just isn't good at this and the shutdown (and its resolution) is a perfect example of that in-action.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#269045: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:23:16 PM

Can we please not focus purely on how it will effect Trump? If this is good for Afghanistan then it's not a good look to worry about it benefiting Trump.

This.

Like. Real talk, if Trump came out tomorrow and said that he was instituting higher marginal taxes against the wealthy, ending his Wall talk, working to preserve civil rights for minorities, dismantling ICE and closing the prison camps, ending the War on Drugs, getting rid of prison privatization, etc. etc., I'd become a Trumpist in a heartbeat.

We must always endeavor to remember that the things Trump/Republicans does are bad because they are bad, and not because they're things that Trump does. We must never forget that, for down that road lies the position the GOP is in today.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#269046: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:29:26 PM

@Tobias Drake: Yes. Speaking from a Conservative perspective, I can say a major part of why the right is as screwed up as it is right now is because it got to a point where it was more about opposing Obama than supporting anything.

Leviticus 19:34
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#269047: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:32:13 PM

Other than tax breaks and deregulation, that is.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#269048: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:32:15 PM

[up][up][up] But he's still a disgusting human being, and a Russian Sellout.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing he could do to make me support him.

Edited by megaeliz on Jan 28th 2019 at 6:34:03 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#269049: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:33:21 PM

opposing Obama,opposing,Hilary..How about opposing everything or anyone even remotely progressive?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269050: Jan 28th 2019 at 3:42:40 PM

I think obeying common sense is enough to oppose Donald Trump. Nothing says we can't spite him and do some good out of it.

While we're talking about Trump and poker:

Edited by RainingMetal on Jan 28th 2019 at 6:45:13 AM

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.

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