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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#268776: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:10:01 AM

At no point did I suggest we rest on our laurels. I'm just saying treating an actual victory as a setback or a defeat is delusional.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#268777: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:10:24 AM

Because it isn't true. Most of the country hates him, but that doesn't matter with our fucking electoral college. Most states have A LOT of stupid people who like him because he eats fast food in them. As much as they hate the shutdown I promise the federal workers who voted for him, (at least the majority of them) hate minorities more.

[up]I agree, treat this as a victory. But keep in mind it is still a crisis, and fatass Trump isn't going down till at least 2020, and probably not then because of our electorate and the EC.

Edited by Wildcard on Jan 26th 2019 at 1:11:40 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#268778: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:12:21 AM

Because what isn't true? Stop talking as if you're telling us things we don't already know.

Yes, a lot of stupid people like that he eats fast food and won't care about the shutdown or will blame it on the Democrats. That still doesn't mean he's likely to be reelected.

Edited by LSBK on Jan 26th 2019 at 12:13:08 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268779: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:12:50 AM

Because it isn't true. Most of the country hates him, but that doesn't matter with our fucking electoral college. Most states have A LOT of stupid people who like him because he eats fast food in them. As much as they hate the shutdown I promise the federal workers who voted for him, (at least the majority of them) hate minorities more.

What? Yes, it absolutely matters.

How much of the country hates you is the difference between barely winning like Trump did and strongly winning like say, Reagan.

This defeatist shit is unfounded and counterproductive, it encourages the exact kind of apathy that leads to people not voting because "why bother".

I agree, treat this as a victory. But keep in mind it is still a crisis, and fatass Trump isn't going down till at least 2020, and probably not then because of our electorate and the EC.

This is flat out wrong, Trump barely won against Clinton who while great was saddled by decades of smears.

A candidate without her baggage would very likely do even better, saying Trump can't win again is wrong but your claim that he's probably going to win is worse.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 26th 2019 at 1:15:54 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#268780: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:14:08 AM

The context of Trump's 2016 win were dismantled by his actual presidency. His image, the conduct of his administration, a general lack of accomplishment, the erosion of soft power, and the visceral hatred from a significant portion of the population matter, and now they can back up their opposition with his record in government.

Just because there's a nonzero chance of something happening doesn't mean it's inevitable, or even likely.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#268781: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:15:02 AM

I should remind you that a lot of the country hates him and 3 MILLION voted for Hilary instead. But IT DIDN'T MATTER because of the stupid electoral system, and the stupid people in states that did matter.

We can't ignore the possibility that he will be elected again, and must prepare for the worst. Unlike last time.

[up][up]Please read, I said wait till we have a Charismatic candidate running before we start celebrating.

Edited by Wildcard on Jan 26th 2019 at 1:16:12 PM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268782: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:16:54 AM

Best solution would be to acknowledge any suspicious activity from the Russians.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268783: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:16:58 AM

I should remind you that a lot of the country hates him and 3 MILLION voted for Hilary instead. But IT DIDN'T MATTER because of the stupid electoral system, and the stupid people in states that did matter.

We can't ignore the possibility that he will be elected again, and must prepare for the worst. Unlike last time.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about, Trump barely won a few key states. That is the opposite of her support not mattering.

Furthermore, no one has ignored the possibility that he can't win again. Several of us have literally said that he can.

Please read, I said wait till we have a Charismatic candidate running before we start celebrating.

Please read, no one is celebrating.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 26th 2019 at 1:17:36 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#268784: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:22:22 AM

It didn't matter where it counted, it's effects on people's lives. I know what I've seen these past two years. So please stop trying to spin that. Whether through just cheating or stupid people he won and we have to prepare for the possibility.

[up]I know how the electoral system works thanks.

But do whatever you want. I'm going to keep supporting the resistance, but I don't want to get optimistic until we have better reason to be.

Edited by Wildcard on Jan 26th 2019 at 1:23:08 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268785: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:36:17 AM

It didn't matter where it counted, it's effects on people's lives. I know what I've seen these past two years. So please stop trying to spin that. Whether through just cheating or stupid people he won and we have to prepare for the possibility.

Your lack of anything approaching intellectual honesty is staggering, literally, no one has said anything that contradicts this.

You're just arguing against a strawman instead fo actually engaging with my and everyone else's arguments.

I know how the electoral system works thanks.

But do whatever you want. I'm going to keep supporting the resistance, but I don't want to get optimistic until we have better reason to be.

You really really don't.

And nothing I've said is optimistic, so that's another lie.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#268786: Jan 26th 2019 at 10:39:08 AM

I'd really prefer not to thump people for being uncivil on a nice Saturday morning.

Knock it off with the personal sniping.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#268787: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:07:46 AM

Look, until the three weeks is up and the government is still running, I am firmly holding on to the possibility that Trump will shut the government again. Would it make sense? No. Would it go against all logic and better judgment? Yes. Would it be absolutely devastating for Republicans? Yes. But when we have known Trump to possess even the smallest modicum of common sense?

If another shutdown doesn't come to pass, it will be because Congressional Republicans have finally found their spines and stopped him. But I have little reason to believe that Trump, in that moment, wouldn't be willing to try the thing that didn't work the first time again.

i'm tired, my friend
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268788: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:08:12 AM

...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268789: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:09:46 AM

Look, until the three weeks is up and the government is still running, I am firmly holding on to the possibility that Trump will shut the government again. Would it make sense? No. Would it go against all logic and better judgment? Yes. Would it be absolutely devastating for Republicans? Yes. But when we have known Trump to possess even the smallest modicum of common sense?

If another shutdown doesn't come to pass, it will be because Congressional Republicans have finally found their spines and stopped him. But I have little reason to believe that Trump, in that moment, wouldn't be willing to try the thing that didn't work the first time again.

Sure it's possible, considering how thoroughly Trump was beaten I don't think it's plausible but such a thing is hardly impossible.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#268790: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:13:35 AM

I dont see trump doing it, I CAN see him bringing the sugestion or trying again but being stop because it would seriously hurt them.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#268791: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:15:27 AM

What's this about Roger Stone threatening someone's dog?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#268792: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:19:31 AM

[up]x4 Care to give an actual description?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#268793: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:20:52 AM

article,article I wanted to link was behind a pay wall

He also called the owner a rat

[up]

Essentially they're running out of aid money and the White is not giving them any more

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 26th 2019 at 7:21:48 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#268794: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:36:16 AM

Regarding Ocasio-Cortez and the Founding Fathers' beliefs on wealth, that was also a stance shared by Adam Smith, father of capitalism and also an early proponent of social democracy.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#268795: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:38:16 AM

Ironic, ain't it?

i'm tired, my friend
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#268796: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:39:52 AM

[up]No, it's people not reading Adam Smith's work in the context of "besties with Hume". Or, you know, only ever reading the abridged version, care of Utah or Texas.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jan 26th 2019 at 7:41:53 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#268797: Jan 26th 2019 at 11:46:50 AM

Like vargas llosa said, Adam would probably prefer thinking of himself as philosopher rather than economist, he critize colonalism as waste and he does reconize that is system need some sort of arbitrer to stop people to tearing into each other.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#268798: Jan 26th 2019 at 12:13:36 PM

For context, the actual link is https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/26/puerto-rico-hurricane-aid-1125530 , the headline of which reads "Trump White House stonewalls as Puerto Rico aid runs dry", along with "The president's theories about how the storm-wracked island is using disaster relief money could have dire consequences for its residents."

Call it Donald Trump’s second wall, only this time the president’s target is not migrants coming north but dollars going south to help storm-tossed Puerto Rico.

Additional food aid for the island’s poor will soon be exhausted without supplemental funds opposed by the White House. At the same time, billions in community development appropriations have yet to leave Washington — a year after being approved by Congress to assist in the recovery from Hurricanes Maria and Irma.

Next to the government shutdown and bitter fight over immigration policy, Puerto Rico’s plight remains an afterthought to many in Washington. But the big common denominator is Trump’s high profile and the fact that low-income, often Hispanic or Latino families are feeling the crunch — even as U.S. citizens.

Republicans wince; Democrats seethe.

“The territories have long been treated badly, like they’re not part of the American family,” said Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.), who was born in Puerto Rico. “But Trump takes it to a new level of meanness.”

Beyond dollars and cents, two explanations are offered for the president’s stance.

One is his fixation on Puerto Rico’s substantial debt and the notion that bond holders will profit from disaster aid. The second goes to the rawer stuff of Florida politics—a state important to Trump’s base and the site of closely-fought elections this past year.

In an October tweet, the president triggered an outcry when he accused Puerto Rico’s “inept” leaders of trying to use “the massive and ridiculously high” amounts of disaster aid to pay off the commonwealth’s crippling debts. Independent observers said there was no factual basis for the president’s claim. Puerto Rico's advocates were baffled further since Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin had been counted as an ally for the island in working through some aid issues.

Nonetheless, when the White House was asked this week if this was still the president’s mindset, there was no backing down. “I refer you back to the President’s tweet. Beyond that we will not be commenting,” a spokesperson said.

What’s certain is the administration explicitly warned Senate Democrats in advance that the president would not tolerate anything more for Puerto Rico in a disaster aid bill now pending in Congress. And when the White House opted to include $12.7 billion in disaster aid as a carrot for its border wall funding bill, it first took the scalpel to all of about $1.3 billion in new disaster aid for Puerto Rico proposed by the House Appropriations Committee.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 26th 2019 at 1:13:51 PM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#268799: Jan 26th 2019 at 12:19:03 PM

going back to the Rodger Stone Indictment, and the larger investigation as a whole, for a minute, Maddow actually brings up something really worth considering.

The strange thing about a lot of these Indictments, is that there’s a lot of people trying to cover up for things that aren’t necessarily crimes.

What did Rodger Stone lie to Congress about? The person he tried to use as a contact to get information with Wiki Leaks. But why go to such lengths, including threatening someone else to cover that up?

There’s a pattern of that type of behavior, that runs through the entire Trump campaign, of people trying to cover up things that aren’t neccesarily crimes, to the point of lying about them under oath.

Edited by megaeliz on Jan 26th 2019 at 3:21:46 PM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#268800: Jan 26th 2019 at 12:22:14 PM

Of course Trump could shut down the government again. We should hope he does, because it worked out for us the first time. Its the gift that keeps on giving. That said, I hope he doesnt because of the innocent people who will suffer. Think about this carefully: Trump can still hurt a lot of people, but he cant win this hand, its over.

Trump could,nevertheless, still be re-elected. That depends mostly on how the economy is doing in the fall of 2020. That isnt the only thing, but it's 80% of it. Yet, Trump seems determined to keep his trade war going. Again, I dont hope for a recession, because a lot of people would be hurt by it (including me), but if he does cause one it will cost the Reps the White House.

The real question is whether or not Mitch Mc Connel cares. He doesnt have to, his seat is likely safe enough no matter what happens to Trump, the Senate or the economy. I wouldnt put it past him to be deliberately sabotaging his own party in order to solidify his hold on the survivors. This would work as long as he doesnt get blamed for the loss, and with Donald Trump to take the fall, he wont be.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

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