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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268476: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:32:20 PM

By the by, Manchin voted "aye" on the cloture motion on the Shelby amendment, not on the amendment itself which never got to the voting stage or hasn't come to it yet.

(I don't think that the Senate was voting on the Trump bill and the CR by itself as there are no such votes on the rollcall list rather they were voting on altering the House spending bill into either a CR - the Schumer amendment I believe - or into Trump's bill - the Shelby amendment)

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jan 24th 2019 at 11:32:50 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#268477: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:34:42 PM

Oh boy: Looks like Trump is going to at least attempt to go the "national emergency" route now

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-01-24T22%3A13%3A33&utm_source=twCNNp&utm_term=image

Somehow, I don't see this working /s

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#268478: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:41:19 PM

I see they added another billion and a half for his wall in that.

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#268479: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:44:09 PM

I think he knows he's losing.

If nothing else, this will likely be the nail in the coffin for his re-election chances

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268480: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:46:05 PM

What are the exact provisions of the draft emergency declaration? I want to know whether there are any legal restrictions such as sunset clauses.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#268481: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:49:17 PM

[up]x2 Well, it'll rally his base, and the 'Reluctant Republicans' will go back to clinging to him. It will pretty much destroy him with Independents, though, and most Democrats won't make the same mistake of staying home come 2020.

My worry is that if Trump does declare a National Emergency, and then the wall is stopped by the Courts, that he'll keep the Government shut until a) all challenges are dropped or lose by the Supreme Court, or b) Congress gives him the legal authority to do this.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jan 24th 2019 at 5:49:37 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268482: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:50:59 PM

Well, it'll rally his base, and the 'Reluctant Republicans' will go back to clinging to him. It will pretty much destroy him with Independents, though, and most Democrats won't make the same mistake of staying home come 2020.

My worry is that if Trump does declare a National Emergency, and then the wall is stopped by the Courts, that he'll keep the Government shut until a) all challenges are dropped or lose by the Supreme Court, or b) Congress gives him the legal authority to do this.

I don't really see any reason to believe that the Republicans who are unhappy about the shutdown will be mollified by a state of emergency if anything that's more likely than not to alienate them further.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#268483: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:55:04 PM

I disagree. One reason Republicans join that party is due to intense feelings of patriotism and deference to authority. Such people are highly likely to rally around Trump in a declared state of national emergency (in many cases, even if they dont otherwise like him).

That said, it very likely would turn the independents against him and the party.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#268484: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:57:09 PM

[up]It might even galvanize more of the generally politically apathetic (I don't consider them "independents") to switch to participants. Probably against.

The prolonged shutdown smells like a phase shifting point, to me.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jan 24th 2019 at 10:58:43 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268485: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:58:22 PM

It might even galvanize more of the generally politically apathetic (I don't consider them "independents").

If it does then that will be very bad for Republicans, a majority of the population opposes the wall and declaring a state of emergency over it.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268486: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:03:40 PM

The shutdown drama aside, is anyone following Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter? The more I read it the more I like her. Future Speaker/minority leader?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268487: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:13:45 PM

It depends on whether she can overcome the fact a lot of older Democrats dislike her intensely.

But she's immensely entertaining.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#268488: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:14:21 PM

I don't really follow people on twitter as the cynic in me is wary of any and all tweets,they're not always written by the person whose name is on account,see Trump for what I mean

I'm not saying [up][up]'s account is written by someone else in her name by the way

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 24th 2019 at 11:14:48 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#268489: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:16:22 PM

Most of the time it says I am rate limited on my phone and won’t let me see the tweet in question.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#268490: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:27:07 PM

I've largely forsaken Twitter.

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268491: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:47:39 PM

AOC is immensely affable and so far has avoided anything more problematic than the normal inaccuracies that politicians tend to stumble into.

If I had a twitter account I would follow her in a heartbeat.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#268492: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:00:21 PM

AOC's twitter game is on point, and she's doing a lot of good, but she has shown no real grasp of what she'd need to be Speaker yet. Her inability to ever let anything go is tiresome and her interviews have her show a questionable view of certain policies.

I mean, she's still complaining articles had the temerity to fact check her on twitter. Humiliating conservatives there is awesome. being outraged she's called out for not knowing policy she's talking about is another thing.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#268493: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:09:27 PM

I've seen people theorize that it's a good thing AOC is so provocative, and that she's helping by drawing conservative attention with things like the charity stream, but I don't know if making a young female Congresswoman the aggro dump is the best choice in terms of the future of the party, even if it does seem to be working.

It's been fun.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#268494: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:09:33 PM

[up][up]Honestly though, she has a fair point. There’s definitely a media double standard, and it’s valid for her to point out that it’s questionable to use a Walmart funded think tank study from 2005 to criticize her fair wage policies.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 24th 2019 at 7:10:41 AM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#268496: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:25:08 PM

AOC is the kind of politician who can get the people of the country to unite. She pisses off Conservatives and is likeable and personal, which is what we need to win in the short-term to get a better country through elections. "Likableness" is badly a huge component of what gave Trump the electoral victory and we'll need someone like that.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#268497: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:26:46 PM

I genuinely hope she gets enough experience before she gets the job. Not because I think she’s naive, but because she has to get to know the long term people who she’s working with.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#268498: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:32:17 PM

[up][up]Um, sorry, but surely pissing of conservatives is hardly getting the country to unite. Irrationally pissed off conservatives is why the country is divided.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268499: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:36:37 PM

I think that logic fails when they're irrationally pissed off because people dare stand up for minorities, the poor, and not utterly bowing before them.

The Republicans are the party of "Why did you make me hit you."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#268500: Jan 24th 2019 at 4:41:08 PM

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying she's wrong to piss off conservatives. I'm just saying that uniting the country is the exact opposite of what she's doing. She's swiftly become a very divisive figure indeed.


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