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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268451: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:31:20 PM

Obligatory, Manchin almost certainly voted for it knowing that it was inevitably going to fail.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:31:41 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#268452: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:32:08 PM

[up]x2 Wait, there are 53 Republicans in the Senate, and Manchin would make it 54, but if only 2 Republicans voted against it, then that would be 52-48... So either someone didn't vote, or 3 Republicans voted no for the 51-49 vote.

Either way, here's hoping the CR passes with the 60+ votes needed.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:32:29 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#268453: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:32:28 PM

Do we need to worry about Manchin? Or is his disguise as a DINO so perfect that it even fools us? Like, does he have meetings with the rest of the Democratic party where they establish that as long as everyone else votes no, Manchin can safely vote yes as an empty gesture?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268454: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:33:45 PM

I mentioned earlier Manchin lives in a state where the divide between blue and red isn't nearly what people thinks. He's got little party loyalty because the Republicans in the state support him and the Democrats of WV often want Republican policies to succeed.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268455: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:36:31 PM

Do we need to worry about Manchin? Or is his disguise as a DINO so perfect that it even fools us? Like, does he have meetings with the rest of the Democratic party where they establish that as long as everyone else votes no, Manchin can safely vote yes as an empty gesture?

What do you think he is?

A Republican who votes with Democrats on major policies?

Because that isn't a Republican.

He's a Blue Dog, which means that he's going to support a minimal amount of liberal policy but that's better than a Republican who would support none of it. I'm not aware of anything worth worrying about, this is perfectly in-character for him.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#268456: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:42:31 PM

Let's be clear. The election's over for 6 years. We don't need to pretend we like Manchin. He's a self serving coward and not a good person at all.

We just need him.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268457: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:44:32 PM

Manchin is better than a Red but I find it important to remember he's not a trustworthy guy or friend to a liberal social agenda.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#268458: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:44:43 PM

"Do we need to worry about Manchin? Or is his disguise as a DINO so perfect that it even fools us? Like, does he have meetings with the rest of the Democratic party where they establish that as long as everyone else votes no, Manchin can safely vote yes as an empty gesture?"

They almost certainly have this understanding as his practice of voting on generally conservative bills in a way that contradicts the establishment's when the outcome is assured one way or the other forms the basis for his continued electoral success in a state that is overwhelmingly GOP these days.

[up]He's from West Virginia. No one there is like that. He's the best we can get.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:45:21 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#268459: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:45:20 PM

Second bill failed with 52 votes. Five Republicans voted with all Democrats, Manchin included.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268460: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:49:36 PM

Let's be clear. The election's over for 6 years. We don't need to pretend we like Manchin. He's a self serving coward and not a good person at all.

We just need him.

I have no problem with people disliking him.

I was responding to someone asking if they should be worrying, the answer is that they shouldn't for the reasons given.

Manchin is better than a Red but I find it important to remember he's not a trustworthy guy or friend to a liberal social agenda.

I don't think I'd call him a friend either, more like an occasional ally of convenience.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:50:42 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268461: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:50:39 PM

The five Republicans that voted in favour of the CR are Lamar Alexander from Tennessee (retiring in 2020), Susan Collins from Maine (running in 2020), Cory Gardner from Colorado (running in 2020, second most vulnerable incumbent), Johnny Isakson from Georgia (dunno why), Lisa Murkowski from Alaska (moderate) and Mitt Romney from Utah. It also looks like Ted Cruz was ranted at by Michael Bennet (D-CO).

Also, where do we get the tally for the Senate spending bill from? According to The Hill it got 50-47 but it's not clear who voted for or against and who didn't vote at all.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268462: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:53:03 PM

Being as I work in WV, Manchin isn't a Necessary Evil. There's other Democrats he pushes out.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#268463: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:54:20 PM

For some reason I've seen conflicting sources say the first bill got 51 or 50 votes. And none of them say who didn't vote for some reason.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268464: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:56:27 PM

Being as I work in WV, Manchin isn't a Necessary Evil. There's other Democrats he pushes out.

The burden of proof is on you, considering that Manchin previously ran against a Democrat with a strongly progressive agenda and solidly defeated her I am highly skeptical this is true.

West Virginia is an extremely white and conservative state, the idea that he "pushes out" more progressive Democrats is something that makes very little sense

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268465: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:59:09 PM

So just so we're clear, before we discuss this, you're telling me about the politics of the state I work in and live 12 miles away from?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#268466: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:00:16 PM

Great, so neither bill passed, but the CR got more support then Trump's 'Compromise' bill. Looks like the Shutdown will continue until the Republicans start really feeling the pain.

Hopefully they start panicking in 2 weeks (That should be when Trump's numbers are near or below 30% approval, based on the rate it's been dropping since the Shutdown started).

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268467: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:02:29 PM

So just so we're clear, before we discuss this, you're telling me about the politics of the state I work in and live 12 miles away from?

I am saying that the available evidence contradicts your claim and the fact that you have extensive personal experience with West Virginia while certainly relevant does not change the previous fact.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#268468: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:20:00 PM

Charles, perhaps you're not looking at your surroundings with both eyes open. The evidence of WV's leanings in federal politics points to it being a deeply conservative bastion — select liberal ideas can survive in isolation, but never a program or a platform. Joe Manchin supports a number of key policies whose support intersect between Democratic stalwarts and the old white conservatives that vote him into power.

You run a progressive in West Virginia, you're going to lose.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 24th 2019 at 4:21:01 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268469: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:32:10 PM

The moment Manchin dies or retires, we aren’t ever getting a Democratic Senator from WV.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268470: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:33:21 PM

The moment Manchin dies or retires, we aren’t ever getting a Democratic Senator from WV.

Not necessarily, we could get another Blue Dog like Manchin.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268471: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:47:32 PM

Well, now.

The two Republicans that voted against Trump's bill are - wait for it - Tom Cotton (R-AK) and Mike Lee (R-UT). Two ultra right wingers.

Not so surprisingly, Jared Kushner was pushing the Trump bill and expected it to get overwhelming support. Why does this guy have a White House job still?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#268472: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:55:11 PM

Nepotism.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268473: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:01:13 PM

The two Republicans that voted against Trump's bill are - wait for it - Tom Cotton (R-AK) and Mike Lee (R-UT). Two ultra right wingers.

If I had to guess, it wasn't racist enough for them.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#268474: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:14:15 PM

It seems more Senators were in favor of the no-wall bill than the one with.

It's a step in the right direction, I guess

I still say this lasts until sometime in March. Something will happen by then

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#268475: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:17:02 PM

I think it will end sometime in February,hopefully anyway

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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