Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
x2 Wait, there are 53 Republicans in the Senate, and Manchin would make it 54, but if only 2 Republicans voted against it, then that would be 52-48... So either someone didn't vote, or 3 Republicans voted no for the 51-49 vote.
Either way, here's hoping the CR passes with the 60+ votes needed.
Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:32:29 PM
I mentioned earlier Manchin lives in a state where the divide between blue and red isn't nearly what people thinks. He's got little party loyalty because the Republicans in the state support him and the Democrats of WV often want Republican policies to succeed.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.What do you think he is?
A Republican who votes with Democrats on major policies?
Because that isn't a Republican.
He's a Blue Dog, which means that he's going to support a minimal amount of liberal policy but that's better than a Republican who would support none of it. I'm not aware of anything worth worrying about, this is perfectly in-character for him.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang"Do we need to worry about Manchin? Or is his disguise as a DINO so perfect that it even fools us? Like, does he have meetings with the rest of the Democratic party where they establish that as long as everyone else votes no, Manchin can safely vote yes as an empty gesture?"
They almost certainly have this understanding as his practice of voting on generally conservative bills in a way that contradicts the establishment's when the outcome is assured one way or the other forms the basis for his continued electoral success in a state that is overwhelmingly GOP these days.
He's from West Virginia. No one there is like that. He's the best we can get.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:45:21 PM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."We just need him.
I have no problem with people disliking him.
I was responding to someone asking if they should be worrying, the answer is that they shouldn't for the reasons given.
I don't think I'd call him a friend either, more like an occasional ally of convenience.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:50:42 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangThe five Republicans that voted in favour of the CR are Lamar Alexander from Tennessee (retiring in 2020), Susan Collins from Maine (running in 2020), Cory Gardner from Colorado (running in 2020, second most vulnerable incumbent), Johnny Isakson from Georgia (dunno why), Lisa Murkowski from Alaska (moderate) and Mitt Romney from Utah.
It also looks like Ted Cruz was ranted at by Michael Bennet (D-CO)
.
Also, where do we get the tally for the Senate spending bill from? According to The Hill it got 50-47 but it's not clear who voted for or against and who didn't vote at all.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanThe burden of proof is on you, considering that Manchin previously ran against a Democrat with a strongly progressive agenda and solidly defeated her I am highly skeptical this is true.
West Virginia is an extremely white and conservative state, the idea that he "pushes out" more progressive Democrats is something that makes very little sense
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangGreat, so neither bill passed, but the CR got more support then Trump's 'Compromise' bill. Looks like the Shutdown will continue until the Republicans start really feeling the pain.
Hopefully they start panicking in 2 weeks (That should be when Trump's numbers are near or below 30% approval, based on the rate it's been dropping since the Shutdown started).
I am saying that the available evidence contradicts your claim and the fact that you have extensive personal experience with West Virginia while certainly relevant does not change the previous fact.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangCharles, perhaps you're not looking at your surroundings with both eyes open. The evidence of WV's leanings in federal politics points to it being a deeply conservative bastion — select liberal ideas can survive in isolation, but never a program or a platform. Joe Manchin supports a number of key policies whose support intersect between Democratic stalwarts and the old white conservatives that vote him into power.
You run a progressive in West Virginia, you're going to lose.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 24th 2019 at 4:21:01 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."The two Republicans that voted against Trump's bill are - wait for it - Tom Cotton (R-AK) and Mike Lee (R-UT). Two ultra right wingers.
Not so surprisingly, Jared Kushner was pushing the Trump bill and expected it to get overwhelming support. Why does this guy have a White House job still?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanIf I had to guess, it wasn't racist enough for them.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

Obligatory, Manchin almost certainly voted for it knowing that it was inevitably going to fail.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:31:41 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang