TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#268201: Jan 21st 2019 at 6:09:54 PM

I think I can get why Native Americans would be upset, because people claiming to be "1/8 Cherokee" or having a great grandmother "Indian Princess" are apparently thing, but it doesn't seem like Warren was actually doing anything like that.

It seems like a reflex to chastise her actions based on other things, even they genuinely weren't the same. Like, a genuine misinterpretation that wasn't actually her fault.

But even saying that is awkward just considering the history.

Edited by LSBK on Jan 21st 2019 at 8:10:36 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268202: Jan 21st 2019 at 6:48:19 PM

Giuliani's strategy is actually quite clever. He knows his client is guilty as sin and there's massive evidence against him that will come out.

So he's softballing it and acting like it's no big deal.

Which works.

Especially given he knows the Senate will never convict him.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268203: Jan 21st 2019 at 6:49:13 PM

That article sounded reasonable right up until it made the false assertion that Warren claimed to be a Cherokee, something she has never done.

Warren shouldn’t apologise for something she hasn’t done, it’s not her fault people keep buying Republican propaganda.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#268204: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:11:06 PM

One of my worries going forward is that the next president/s will have to spend so much time un-fucking everything that Trump fucked up that they won't have time to work on progressive policies. And if we get stuck with another Republican president soon after that, who knows what sort of hell they'll drag us back into.

Do not obey in advance.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#268205: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:13:14 PM

I disagree. If we can get the Presidency, House, and Senate in 2020 (and enough statehouses), it may be the last chance to enact sweeping, permanent reforms before the electoral college and gerrymandering become insurmountable.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268206: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:22:32 PM

There’s a risk that the Supreme Court rules independent redistributing unconstitutional, so that issue isn’t going to be fixed any time soon.

Still remember that after Bush Obama had loads to fix but we still saw Obamacare become a thing, Dems aren’t Republicans, the last two years have been spent getting ready for retaking power.

If the Dems win in 2020 they’re going to have a whole host of good legistlation ready to go.

Plus the president isn’t needed for everything, for progressive legistlation you have the House and the president just has to sign, for undoing the damage done to cabinet agencies you’ll have the various cabinet members, the focus of the next democrat president will be fixing what Trump’s done abroad (much of which will be impossible, with the only fix being showing that Republicans can’t gain power again) while Democratic legislators fix things domestically.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268207: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:51:21 PM

Yup, it's likely Pelosi and her teams have progressive bills being internally debated right now so if we take all branches of government we can hit the ground sprinting.

New Survey coming this weekend!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#268208: Jan 21st 2019 at 8:36:51 PM

He grew up in West Africa. He never heard of MS-13. Then he fled to the U.S. — and ICE accused him of being a gang member

Just an article on how ICE has been pretty blatantly falsely accusing immigrants of being gang members to keep them from getting green cards, deport them, among other things.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268209: Jan 21st 2019 at 8:50:40 PM

There's no confusion about ICE's job. They have been ordered to deport as many immigrants as possible and have been doing so.

It's why all defenses of them are bullshit.

They've cooperated in numerous illegal actions and deportations.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#268210: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:14:31 PM

[up] The whole deportation wing of ICE (ERO) needs to go. That’s only a part of the agency, though.

They should have sent a poet.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#268211: Jan 22nd 2019 at 3:09:15 AM

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if ICE members were doing things like turning immigrants into lampshades, forcing them into slave labor, or other Schutzstaffel-esque activities.

How is it that every single person who works with ICE comes off like Hans Landa gloating about his kill count?

(seriously, check out this one video of an ICE agent basically gloating about his streak of deportations.)

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#268212: Jan 22nd 2019 at 3:18:04 AM

I guess that's what happens when part of the hiring process is to look for people who would be fine with kicking out desperate poor migrants.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#268213: Jan 22nd 2019 at 3:22:40 AM

That seems to be a problem with the hiring of law enforcement in general. Not enough effort made to weed out people who are basically jackboot thugs and racists, and insufficient or no punishment for when those people abuse their positions to harass/mistreat/starve/torture/etc minorities.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 22nd 2019 at 7:24:07 AM

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#268214: Jan 22nd 2019 at 4:59:19 AM

I don't see why any branch of ICE needs to be defended as if it's some timeless American institution. It was introduced during the Bush Administration along with the TSA, and both have shown themselves to be little less than attempts at having law enforcement in the 21st century whose job it is to get, to paraphrase Pratchett 'people who aren't our kind of people,' to feel as miserable as humanly possible.

If you have an agency with utter contempt for local laws being given broad powers to ignore them in favor of deportation, and you give them the same (frankly disgusting) legal powers you give to regular law enforcement, you get ICE. This is a case where rotten apples haven't spoiled the bunch because they were all rotten to begin with.

Organizational theory holds that it's always easier to destroy a functional organization than fix a dysfunctional one. To get a 'better ICE' woule require a set of sweeping reforms that, frankly, aren't worth the effort compared to tearing it down and going back to the drawing board. And at least then there wouldn't be naturalized American citizens with the wrong fucking phenotype living in fear of deportation.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#268215: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:20:56 AM

Given that a few days ago, they arrested a Marine who they suspected to be an illegal immigrant (despite the fact that he was native to the States) because his name sounded foreign (read, Hispanic), there's no justification for the ICE to be considered a necessity.

It's a damn shame they're allowed to operate.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#268216: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:25:30 AM

[up][up] That feels a little like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Most of what ICE does isn’t deporting people, and their authority isn’t exceptional among federal agencies. The talk of “destroying” it seems a bit over dramatic when all you really need to do is clean house a bit.

They should have sent a poet.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#268217: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:27:07 AM

Isn't ICE pretty much the only investigatory organ in the DHS? Even the other branches hate ERO from what the reporting has said.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#268218: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:28:10 AM

It's more then about cleaning house,it's name is so tainted you need to almost tear down the house and build it somewhere else with new staff and name

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#268219: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:43:50 AM

ICE is a lot like modern police forces in that, sure it's a "few bad apples" (nevermind that a few bad apples spoil the bunch), but the maintaining of ICE as an institution through everyone participating in it, even the ones that aren't necessarily the ones causing most of the talked about problems, shows that keeping ICE around at all is problematic.

Edited by golgothasArisen on Jan 22nd 2019 at 7:46:33 AM

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#268220: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:55:54 AM

[up][up][up] Pretty much. Any investigation DHS does is conducted by ICE agents, but when you show up with an ICE patch on your jacket even if you’re there to investigate IP violations everyone assumes you’re those assholes at the border. The other parts of ICE have been calling for the elimination of ERO nonstop because it hurts their ability to carry out investigations.

[up] I’m not sure that makes much sense. There’s not really any point in getting rid of an entire massive agency just because parts of it can’t behave. If we operated like that our government would be in constant turmoil.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:57:32 AM

They should have sent a poet.
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#268221: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:00:57 AM

Yet this specific government agency has only been around for less than two decades, and we were pretty damn fine without it.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268222: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:01:38 AM

In shutdown news, the Senate is finally getting a spending bill moving, although it's not clear whether it even has a simple majority. This one has Trump Wall funding plus some other things such as Trump's proposed DACA extension (which, I presume, is the reason the bill isn't a sure pass even w/o a filibuster) and more disaster aid funding.

This is what they have to say about their bill.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jan 22nd 2019 at 3:12:59 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#268223: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:04:54 AM

[up][up] Well, actually, we weren’t. The whole reason ICE was formed was because the mess of agencies that used to handle all of their functions were totally ineffective at doing anything, having 5 agencies do the work of one is more or less a burecratic nightmare. Nothing got done. These were all legacy agencies and were probably going to be reorganized eventually anyways, but when 9/11 snuck past them it was decided they’d be reorganized then and there.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:05:21 AM

They should have sent a poet.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268224: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:13:23 AM

I’d say have a massive massive investigation of the entire organization from top to bottom, leave no stone unturned, and clean house. I’d said investigation, somehow, warrants disbanding the entire organization and replacing it, do so. If not, just get rid of the roaches, and then put the new leadership on an extremely short leash

New Survey coming this weekend!
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#268225: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:17:16 AM

I don't see why we can't put something in ICE's place once we get rid of it. Something that isn't so "get these fuckers out of our country"-centric.

i'm tired, my friend

Total posts: 417,856
Top