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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268151: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:40:21 AM

Mainly because a lot of progressives are obsessed with the idea of purity, and a flawless unicorn candidate, when one doesn't, and cannot exist.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#268152: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:40:43 AM

[up][up][up][tup][tup][tup]

Can you imagine that other than him winning an election the only thing I currently know about Bento is that Cruz tried to make an issue out of his name?

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 21st 2019 at 11:41:50 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268153: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:42:36 AM

While I think Warren screwed up big time and should apologize to any Native American people she offended, I find all this discourse to be a bit disconcerting. We're about to throw her under the bus for what has essentially become a Republican smear campaign, while giving passes to people like Beto, Gillibrand, and Harris for actual bad policy that they've actually passed or attempted to pass.

And I'm not even saying those three are necessarily bad candidates, I'm not opposed to any of them yet (and haven't really picked a choice yet), but I do think there's an issue and a pattern on what we're choosing to focus on.

I don't see anyone throwing her under the bus, considering her decision a mistake does not mean that she's unacceptable as a candidate.

To me her position on tariffs to be far more serious but even that's not a deal breaker.

And I assure you that I don't give Beto a pass, his lack of experience(!) and spotty record mean that I'm not particularly enthused in him as a possible candidate.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 21st 2019 at 2:42:57 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268154: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:44:41 AM

What is Beto's issue, other than my complaint about him being better off running for Senate again as a) Senate seats are important and b) the "Rust Belt" path to the presidency seems much safer than a Sunbelt strategy?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268155: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:47:56 AM

He’s got a lack of high level experience and it’s unclear how much substance he has to him once one gets past the “younge, attractive, white, man” phenomenon that has the press drawn to him.

Stacy Abrams did just as well as he did in November but he’s the one being pushed to run by top democrats and getting a ton of press attention, it’s hard not to see some racism and sexism in what’s happening.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#268156: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:49:13 AM

Texas is more electorally valuable, too, which I guess is another factor.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268157: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:52:16 AM

Yeah and it’s been the Democrats blue whale for a while now, the press love the idea of Texas being a battleground state.

That’s not going to explain all of it though, as Beto would be highly unlikely to actually deliver Texas.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268158: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:58:13 AM

He’s got a lack of high level experience and it’s unclear how much substance he has to him once one gets past the “younge, attractive, white, man” phenomenon that has the press drawn to him.

Stacy Abrams did just as well as he did in November but he’s the one being pushed to run by top democrats and getting a ton of press attention, it’s hard not to see some racism and sexism in what’s happening.

Pretty much this, as someone who really liked Abrams I don't really appreciate the disproportionate amount of attention he received.

Made worse by the fact that his legislative record is very questionable, Current Affairs has a great article on it.

For example, he opposed the funding of Israel's Iron Dome system. A reasonable position considering that Israel is an independent nation that should be able to fund its own defense projects, but he more or less immediately buckled after receiving a torrent of pressure from the pro-Israel lobby. That's not the actions of someone who sticks by their principles, which is a worryingly common trend with him. Beto either proposes something progressive and bold and then backs down later or never proposes anything progressive in the first place.

Upon closer examination, Beto just seems like an affable empty suit.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 21st 2019 at 2:58:54 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268159: Jan 21st 2019 at 12:09:54 PM

Not to mention his support of Hurd.

Edited by TacticalFox88 on Jan 21st 2019 at 3:19:23 PM

New Survey coming this weekend!
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#268160: Jan 21st 2019 at 12:39:32 PM

On an unrelated note, there's one line in that article that make sme raise an eyebrow:

Much to the alarm of humanist political activists like myself, the Democratic Party has increasingly embraced sectarian politics, particularly by fetishizing racial and gender labels as it chooses candidates.

What are you trying to tell us, Jilani?

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268161: Jan 21st 2019 at 12:48:07 PM

What are you trying to tell us, Jilani?

Yeah, that caused me to do a double take when I first read it.

The article is obviously coming from a pro-Sanders perspective to the point it's almost Bernie-Broish.

I still think the general gist of the argument is valid.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 21st 2019 at 3:48:33 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#268162: Jan 21st 2019 at 1:08:22 PM

[up] As they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Now I'm feeling really dirty for having voted for Beto, though. Between someone like him, and Ted Cruz...man, is there any politician in the U.S. that has some serious fucking principles? Honest question here.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268163: Jan 21st 2019 at 1:16:02 PM

Don’t feel dirty having voted for Beto, even at his worst he’s still miles better than Cruz.

Also a lot of the Beto issues aren’t ones caused by him, it’s the press and DNC leadership playing favourites with him over Abrams.

Edited by Silasw on Jan 21st 2019 at 9:17:14 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#268164: Jan 21st 2019 at 1:16:14 PM

As they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Exactly my thoughts.

Now I'm feeling really dirty for having voted for Beto, though. Between someone like him, and Ted Cruz...man, is there any politician in the U.S. that has some serious fucking principles? Honest question here.

I completely understand how you feel, but honestly, I think there are absolutely politicians with principle. It's just that the ones who don't are more obvious.

I would consider both Warren and Sanders to be principled, they've been consistent with their beliefs and positions even if it cost them (which is the ultimate determinate of whether or not someone truly believes something).

Or Gillibrand who rejected Al Franken even though she almost certainly knew that it would anger people aligned with the Democratic Party (which it did, one of her weaknesses is that some donors dislike her because of that).

Don’t feel dirty having voted for Beto, even at his worst he’s still miles better than Cruz.

This too.

An empty suit is better than a theocrat.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 21st 2019 at 4:16:57 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#268165: Jan 21st 2019 at 1:17:07 PM

[up][up][up] Well, between Cruz and Beto, Beto's the easiest choice. So, don't necessarily regret voting for him, even as you promise not to do so if you can avoid it again.

This Presidential race, none of the candidates are pure and clean of scandal or sin. The goal is to find someone who you think is the best choice, and hope for the best.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jan 21st 2019 at 4:17:20 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#268166: Jan 21st 2019 at 1:19:31 PM

Kamala Harris Could Win The 2020 Democratic Primary

On Beto, you might call it cynicism or practicality depending on individual view point, but I kind of expect anyone running for President to have some questionable black marks against them.

Obviously everyone has different breaking points, but I don't see any good in going how voting for the better candidate (which he still was) makes you "dirty" or "lacking in principles". It doesn't help anything.

TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#268167: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:03:20 PM

Politicians with Principles don't last very long. Successful Politicians generally have to play dirty at least sometimes no matter what. Just the nature of things.

Of course, that might be excessively cynical. And that isn't to say that such sorts don't show up (like AOC) but they're rare. And they're to be cherished.

But as several posters here have said, you generally don't have much of a choice except for the lesser of two weevils.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#268168: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:07:53 PM

I think that if we had Range voting, we wouldn't have to choose the lesser of two evils.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268169: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:08:12 PM

I wouldn’t even consider Beto an evil, it’s not that there’s anything wrong about him, he’d be a reliable democratic vote and support a number of progressive policies. There’s just nothing exceptional about him when it comes to policy or his record.

He’s run off the mill, not an evil (even a lesser one).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268170: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:13:40 PM

Beto seems to irritate some people by being optimistic and cool despite failures.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#268171: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:16:05 PM

It bears repeating that Beto is from Texas — a Texas Democrat isn't going to gel completely with the Democrats' progressive vanguard. Them being angry over this seems like it's borne out of a fundamental misunderstanding of who he is.

The larger issue is that he's miscast as a Presidential candidate. He would be perfect running in the 2020 Texas senate election.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 21st 2019 at 5:16:36 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#268172: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:19:04 PM

I thought Warren's handling of the issue was entirely correct. She made a falsifiable claim, and then she tested it. She took a risk. It could have come out the other way. It didn't.

I value this sort of scientific humility extremely highly. Furthermore, showing Trump's false promise and fundamental lack of integrity for what it was was elegant and beautiful. There could not have been a clearer, more black and white demonstration of good vs. evil, noble vs. vile in my value system.

And Wall Street sure needs regulating. Part if that is normative; their prestige and merit and self image needs to be reframed, for their own good.

Edited by Oruka on Jan 21st 2019 at 2:20:00 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#268173: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:30:15 PM

She said she had Native heritage.

Not that she was Native American.

Which seems to be the issue.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#268174: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:32:43 PM

People also seem to make a distinction between "heritage" and "ancestry" (or perhaps not making it?)

Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 21st 2019 at 4:05:00 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268175: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:41:16 PM

I’m not sure on Beto running for the senate in 2020, he did well in 2018 but still lost, if the people of a state just decided not to elect you to a specific office it seems a bit off to try again two years later. I’d rather Beto for VP and have Castro run for the senate seat in 2020.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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