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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#268126: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:16:34 AM

I still maintain that Warren got handed a Morton's Fork. She was damned whatever she chose to do.

Not take the test? Trump bangs the "fake Pocahontas" drum every three days with Fox lapping it up each time.

Take the test, but not disclose the results until they inevitably leak: "fake Pocahontas hiding fake has fake test results faked" and "fake Cherokee!".

Take the test as she did, "she should never have caved in the first place!" and "no true Cherokee!". tongue

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jan 21st 2019 at 6:17:34 PM

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268127: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:16:55 AM

That all being said, finance is extremely complicated, even taking aside the cartoonish machinations of some Wall Street executives and analysts.

New Survey coming this weekend!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#268128: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:21:57 AM

It's not the most important issue of the primary, but I do want to take a moment and bask in the fact that we have multiple good female and POC candidates going into the 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary - and one really shitty one as well!

Contrast 2016, which was one white woman facing off against a room full of white men, most of whom dropped out but all of whom were still exclusively white men.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 21st 2019 at 11:22:28 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#268129: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:22:02 AM

That there are a subset of voters who don't want to hear that is a problem, too. They don't want the explanations of what can and ca't be done or how hard it is

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#268130: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:22:18 AM

Alrighty, so besides economic reform, what are the issues we want the candidates to address? And what do we know about their position on said issues?

I think it would help if people could provide a voting record, previous work, or their first-hand statements on those issues, rather than our own nebulous memories of what we heard from others.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#268131: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:22:26 AM

The problem with the whole situation is that Warren had no good option. It was Trump that blew the whole thing up into a racist attack on her. Her options were to ignore it, to back away from her family history, to double down on her claims without any proof, or to do what she could to try to support her position. She did the latter, while trying to make it clear that she isn't actually claiming tribal citizenship or cultural heritage, and trying to use the issue as a platform to raise awareness about issues facing the Native American community. (The whole point of the DNA test was that Trump said he'd donate a million dollars to a charity of her choice if she took a DNA test and it proved she had Native American ancestry. She did, it did, and she asked him to send the donation to a group that supports Native American women. He, of course, refused.)

So she took a shitty situation not of her own making and tried to turn it into something good for a historically underrepresented group of people. But the popular take on it is that it's her fault somehow. That's dumb.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#268132: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:22:28 AM

He also claimed he'd donate to a charity of her choice, if she proved she had "Indian" ancestry (yeah, he really used that word) - only to pull an Eddison immediately after the result came out.

So if anything, Trump's the one who came out of the whole thing looking bad. Granted, it's just another turd on a pile of shit, but it seems to have shut him up.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jan 21st 2019 at 7:23:05 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#268133: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:23:09 AM

To be clear here, I am not claiming that Warren is a great candidate. For one, I am not American, so while I certainly will have my own preference for the next president, I am not the one who has to vote, and being a foreign citizen, I automatically put more emphasis on foreign policies and wall street, because those are things which will impact me. The American voter has another perspective.

And two, before there are manifestos and actual policies she runs on, every judgement is premature anyway.

But I think the whole nonsense with the DNA test shouldn't be a measuring stick for her in ANY way. Personally I think the video was the right decision because it shut Trump up and now the whole matter has a chance to die down, which wouldn't have happened otherwise. And I also don't think that this was a spontane action either, I am sure she talked to experts in the fields before doing it. In the whole affair there is only one thing I can say she did "wrong" and that was basically being overly precise on a form. So...yeah, in judging her I would ignore the whole matter.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#268134: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:27:28 AM

The "Cherokee ancestor" thing is Warren's "BUT HER EMAILS THO", and both Democrats and the press fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

Elizabeth Warren only stated that she had a Native American ancestor.

The blood test confirmed that she had a Native American ancestor, several generations back.

The only reason this is a scandal is because belligerent Republicans running a smear campaign issued a Strawman Argument against Elizabeth Warren "being Native American". This Strawman was so effective that even the Cherokee Nation weighed in on it and condemned her for statements she never made.

This is an invented scandal created by Republicans to tear down a threatening female competitor. This is what Republicans do. Why are we still falling for it? We need to stop doing Trump's work for him, carrying his torches to tear down his enemies in our own party.

When Trump goes "LOL Pocahontas" and Democrats nod and go, "LOL Pocahontas", something is terribly wrong.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 21st 2019 at 11:29:54 AM

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268135: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:30:13 AM

I can see an argument for Warren having to specific a focus, she’s probably make a very good cabinet member for whatever positon overseas the financial sector (which I assume is the treasury secretary).

Edited by Silasw on Jan 21st 2019 at 6:31:22 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#268136: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:32:03 AM

Trump was never going to donate to a charity if she did it. He would move the goalposts or renege and even the slightest knowledge of hs history with these things would reveal that.

Warren should have called it out as a stupid racist attack, said it wouldn't distract from the real issues, and kept going

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#268137: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:33:14 AM

[up][up][up]Except most of us here at least did believe her claims to ancestry. We still do.

I just think that actually dignifying Trump's insults with a response like that DNA test was a stupid mistake.

Also, what [up] said.

Edited by M84 on Jan 22nd 2019 at 2:33:38 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#268138: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:36:10 AM

The way to handle this? "Donald Trump is resorting to stupid and racist attacks to avoid talking about the real issues."

Taking a DNA test and letting him bait her like that was horrible judgement. Yes, the media has blown it up well past how it should be, but that's also something one should know they do.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268139: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:38:20 AM

Meh, I think Lightysnake's points are fair. Have we seen any media sensationalism about Beto O'Rourke having a Spanish nickname despite not having any Latino ancestry?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#268140: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:39:52 AM

[up] I think Cruz tried to stoke that particular fire during the Senate race, but I don't think anything ever came of it.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#268141: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:40:25 AM

Not to mention, Beto can speak Spanish, so it's kind of a moot point, anyhow

New Survey coming this weekend!
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#268142: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:41:55 AM

Cruz didn't really have a leg to stand on in that regard, considering his own nickname was to make him sound whiter.

Edited by Parable on Jan 21st 2019 at 10:42:35 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#268143: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:42:12 AM

And didn't he receive it from Hispanic friends/classmates years ago?

Basically a non-issue.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#268144: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:42:58 AM

Although I think the part of The Mitch McConnell Playbook of Politics, chapter 6: "How to handle a President Donald Trump" that says never comment on any of Trump's Tweets come hell or high water is something she should have followed. We all know better now, but bells can't be unrung.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#268145: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:48:15 AM

[up][up] IIRC, his family called him Beto to differentiate him from his grandfather, who was also Robert O'Rourke. As you said, a non-issue.

Edited by Blueeyedrat on Jan 21st 2019 at 10:49:10 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#268146: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:49:35 AM

Saw on CNN that food stamp payments ran out today, and federal courts will run out of money by the end of the week.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#268147: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:52:25 AM

Yeah, Beto was a nickname given to him. He's never, to my knowledge, tried to present himself as born Hispanic.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#268148: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:01:07 AM

If she'd never taken the DNA test, then it would still be a propaganda tool for the Republicans. Demands for her DNA test would be dogging her throughout her campaign and possibly beyond; the Right finally shut up about Obama's birth certificate in 2016, in a speech that somehow managed to claim credit for ending the conspiracy.

They did this in 2017 with the "War on Christmas" too, BTW.

It was better, in my opinion, to just tear off the Band-Aid and get it out of the way, so now all they can do is whine about the results instead of writing elaborate conspiracy theories about "Why won't she show us?"

But ultimately, there is no way to win against a manufactured scandal. There is no right thing to do. If she takes the test, the Right will weaponize the results. If she doesn't take the test, the Right will weaponize her refusal. That's what a manufactured scandal is. There was never going to be an option where FOX News admits they were wrong, Trump takes back his mean name for her, and the Republicans accept and acknowledge her as an equal.

Tricking liberals into appropriating reactionary smear campaigns and using them to smear other liberals is how reactionaries stay in power. The Left is too willing to tear itself apart on the Right's behalf. Meanwhile the public just watches, nods, and goes, "Wow, if even Democrats think there's fire under this smoke, then there must be! I sure am glad I vote for Republicans, who only ever get smeared by cheap liberal attacks! I know those attacks are lies because other Republicans tell me so."

Liberals need to learn not to turn into reactionaries' attack dogs at the drop of a hat, or we'll never take back our country.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 21st 2019 at 12:05:40 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#268149: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:35:36 AM

[up] [tup]

While I think Warren screwed up big time and should apologize to any Native American people she offended, I find all this discourse to be a bit disconcerting. We're about to throw her under the bus for what has essentially become a Republican smear campaign, while giving passes to people like Beto, Gillibrand, and Harris for actual bad policy that they've actually passed or attempted to pass.

And I'm not even saying those three are necessarily bad candidates, I'm not opposed to any of them yet (and haven't really picked a choice yet), but I do think there's an issue and a pattern on what we're choosing to focus on.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#268150: Jan 21st 2019 at 11:39:24 AM

The situation with Warren and the Cherokee Nation is an awkward one, they’re offended because they bought a Republican lie that she did something she didn’t do, I’m not sure if she should apologies for them being stupid enough to fall for a Republican lie.

That’s before we touch on the Cherokee Nation’s own issues with racial inclusivity that’s manifested in black people being expelled from the nation out of a desire to maintain racial purity and deny the Nation’s history of slavery.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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