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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
As long as Sanders thinks civil rights is something he can put on the backburner or treat as secondary rather than being an issue just as important as economic reform if not more so...he's going to have a tough time winning over people who care about these issues.
Especially with the gaffes he's made over the years that have made some of us wonder if maybe he actually is just a bit racist or sexist.
And it's completely valid to consider him not a true progressive. You yourself said his stance is incomplete (at best). A true progressive would have the complete package.
Edited by M84 on Jan 20th 2019 at 10:25:46 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised"I think there's other candidates who take his economic positions and add minority issues to them."
Precisely. The focus should be on pushing these candidates up rather than putting Sanders down.
Le Garcon, what I'm saying is, focusing energy on rejecting Sanders because of his blind spots is wasteful. He must be taken advantage of for all the help he can provide, because, while he doesn't put effort on all the things we need him to, all the things he puts effort in are things we need. He's useful, and should be taken from according ti his capacity.
What I'm trying ti do by quoting MLK and Malcolm X, just as I think the former meant to do, is appeal to the moral coherence of the 'moderate liberal'. I am asking them to sacrifice perceived security and comfort and status for the sake of doing what they know in their hearts to be in everyone's best interest, without 'Golden Mean' moderation and without delay. It's not a rejection, it's a challenge. It's meant to spur one into action. But, more importantly even, it shows that the downtrodden will not be placated or cajoled, they will not be made to wait for justice to be granted to them. They will take it, and if the mod libs won't help, the least they can do is not stand in the way, wasting everyone's energy into pointless bickerings on tone policing and hollow civility and 'playing ball' with lobbyists and special interests.
Impeach the motherfucker, is what I'm saying, in spirit. Take action, and call a monster a monster.
Centrists like to say, the status quo is okay, it's just life, bear with it, make lemonade.
No. Burn "life"'s house down, with the lemons.
Figuratively.
Edited by Oruka on Jan 20th 2019 at 6:54:15 AM
The idea Sanders' progressive bonafides are 'unimpeachable' is absurd. All he has done for decades is talk. He talked, he got nothing done, and then he talked some more. And then he compromised on a multitude of issues. He compromised on guns, he compromised on criminal justice and he waved those votes like trophies to appeal more moderate and tough on crime. As late as 2015, he still thought most drug dealers were black.
Then he decided he wanted to be President and ran a bitter, scorched earth campaign ith toxic culture, ignored women being sexually harassed, allied with some of the most repulsive and divisive figures in the left, found out Russia was using his campaign for propaganda and did fuck all to stop it until one volunteer reported it to the Clinton campaign without his knowledge.
You know who moved the party left? Activists, people fighting for those issues. Stop ascribing it all to Bernie Sanders because his useless temper tantrums did little there. He was behind the curve on criminal justice. Gillibrand outflanked him on a jobs proposal bill. Universal Healthcare has been a plank of the Dems for decades....Sanders isn't progressive on women's rights or racial issues. He's a late arrival to these issues and so ridiculously clumsy on them because he doesn't get them. Look at his dismissal of the women who were harassed. "Oh, I didn't know, I was too busy" even though his campaign paid out a 300K settlement?
He has achieved next to nothing in his primaries, in the elections he's championed. His chosen candidates keep losing. He has shown no capacity to deliver anything electorally. He's a bitter old man screaming at a party he refuses to join. What does he have to offer? He's not a particular good person. He's a finger-wagging moral scold
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2019 at 6:50:05 AM
Oh that's ridiculous.
Sanders has continually championed progressive issues and economic reform and for the most part has definitely been a part of that trend. He's not a Democratic player and prefers to cultivate "outsider" cred but his efforts to move the Democrats left have yielded great dividends.
America has strongly benefited from his efforts and the Democratic Party which has caught up with the 21st century.
It's just moved past him.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 20th 2019 at 6:52:47 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Sanders has continually championed progressive issues and economic reform and for the most part has definitely been a part of that trend. He's not a Democratic player and prefers to cultivate "outsider" cred but his efforts to move the Democrats left have yielded great dividends.
As to what? Sanders refused to support Clinton's push for Univeral Healthcare because, in his own words, it was 'flawed.' He thrust himself to the right on guns and criminal justice and bragged about those issues until it became politically inconvenient. He tried to dump toxic waste on a poor Latino town and then told them to take a hike when they asked to meet with him. The Dems moved left in response to activist pressure, not because "Bernie the Great White Hope."
You're right: he's not a Democratic player and that hurts him because our system requires you to compromise and make deals.
It's just moved past him.
His career is distinguished only in how undistinguished it is. Ironically, the only major piece of legislation he's ever authored beyond naming post offices was a compromise with John McCain.
He's a bitter old joke and deserves to fade.
When people say he 'champions' issues, they mean he wags his finger at those who disagree and yells at him for it. Nothing gets done that way. Compare him to say, Henry Waxman, who did far more for issues than Bernie Sanders ever did. Bernie's great legacy is a legion of angry bros online who go after people who say anything bad about Bernie Sanders.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2019 at 6:56:42 AM
He's been trash for a long time.
He just confirmed it recently. It's a special kind of revolting hypocrite to attack someone for supporting a bill he voted for and waved around like a trophy for years to prove he was tough on crime. it's a special kind of terrible to vote to protect he gun lobbies and tell the families of gun violence you owe them nothing.
When people try to praise Bernie Sanders, it's generally in vagaries. He's 'such a champion.' He 'fights so hard.' Absent from this are any sort of tangible accomplishments. Bernie hates sullying his idealism with icky politics. He doesn't really care about getting things done if he can't bluster about and order it.
This is the man who decided to save his flagging campaign by inviting himself to a Vatican conference, lying that the pope himself invited him and waited to ambush photobomb Pope Francis. People just forget what a bitter joke his campaign was because Clinton lost.
There's not enough hours in the day to go off at people who praise Sanders. But the debate is being held here and now.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:01:31 AM
The Clinton signed Omnibus crime bill. He attacked Clinton for supporting it, and either didn't mention his own support for it, or just lied about it.
He spent years throwing it around as proof he was tough on crime.
Bernie Sanders has built a brand around himself. But a lot of that is campaign rhetoric, not fact. This is the man who Vermonter Civil rights leaders have claimed considered them invisible.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:03:44 AM
Bernie Sanders is worthless as a politician. He's all talk and no action, and the one thing he's good at, talking, constantly gets him in trouble when he says something stupid, ignorant, or outdated. His tendency to shit-talk the Democrats doesn't help anyone except the Republicans, and it only hurts the Dems who are actually trying to do something to help this country.
Fuck Bernie Sanders, honestly. He's a fauxgressive ignorant old white man who openly doesn't care about "identity politics", i.e: all issues that don't affect him as an old white man. No wonder Bernie Bros and the Unicorn Brigade are the way that they are if this idiot is the face of their movement.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 20th 2019 at 8:09:40 AM
I agree that any argument over "True Progressive" does not seem like one worth the time.
I do agree that Sanders' message fell flat among many black voters because he ignored their specific issues that make his economic policies divorced from reality. As Elizabeth Warren put it:
"Two sets of rules: one for the wealthy and the well-connected. And one for everybody else," she said. "Two sets of rules: one for white families. And one for everybody else. That’s how a rigged system works. And that's what we need to change."
I will also acknowledge, though, that Sanders is aware that he screwed up trying to reach out to African Americans and is trying to change. When people blew up at him for essentially coddling racist sentiment as an explanation for why Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams lost their elections, he quickly realized how wrong he was and issued a much stronger statement:
He'll be attending a Martin Luther King Day event tomorrow in South Carolina and speaking to students from historically black colleges.
Now that I mentioned it, a lot
of Democratic
(not-)candidates will be brushing their credentials for black voters tomorrow.
Kirsten Gillibrand (Whose name I just can't spell right for some reason):
Joe Biden:
Biden will speak to King’s legacy, a spokesperson for him told NBCBLK.
Cory Booker:
“As we pause to remember the man on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, it’s important not to forget his movement," Booker said in a statement to NBCBLK. "What really made Dr. King great was that he inspired us to be great. He ignited others to engage and to stand up and fight for justice in this nation. He inspired this country to live up to its highest ideals."
Elizabeth Warren is doing a double feature, MLK Day even and a rally with airport workers forced to work without pay:
The Democrat, who is weighing a run for president, will join labor union leaders, workers and other elected officials Monday at Logan Airport’s international terminal.
Warren is also speaking Monday at the Martin Luther King Day Memorial Breakfast at the Boston Convention and Exhibition Center.
Sherrod Brown:
"Dr. King taught that 'all labor has dignity.' For far too many people in this country today, hard work isn’t paying off like it should." Brown said in a statement to NBCBLK. "And as we work to change that, we must acknowledge that it's even worse for workers of color - not only because they are disproportionately affected by the economic challenges, but because they face those challenges while also having to navigate institutional racism that makes it even harder to get ahead no matter how hard they work."
Kamala Harris:
Harris will be the one to keep an eye on tomorrow, as she's rumored to be officially announcing her candidacy at the event she'll be attending.
Edited by Parable on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:39:29 AM
Unfortunately, all signs point to him planning a 2020 run.
Bernie Sanders staffs up for 2020
There wasn't much 'essentially' about it...Sanders has tripped over himself to excuse the racism of white voters, and when he went to speak to a black audience for an event for Dr. King event, he talked down to them quite a bit.
Is he trying to change or is he trying to win and knows he can't do it without them?
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:40:31 AM

Yes, minority issues definitely need to be something he revises his opinions on and I'm not at all as fond of him as a candidate as I used to be. I think there's other candidates who take his economic positions and add minority issues to them.
Nevertheless, none of what his positions are, are wrong. They're just incomplete.
Again also "true progressive" is a word that I often raise an eyebrow regarding.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 20th 2019 at 6:22:11 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.