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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#267951: Jan 20th 2019 at 4:14:58 PM

[up][up]Oh, I thought it was the opposite, that the HOR was the bicameral legislative and that Congress and the Senate were the lower and higher Chambers thereof.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#267952: Jan 20th 2019 at 4:15:40 PM

And Sanders isn't anywhere near the GOP - he's a problem from the other direction.

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#267953: Jan 20th 2019 at 4:53:36 PM

He's not a problem, he's a challenge. One the Democrats can rise to, or dismiss at their own risk, and at everyone's expense.

Critiques of him on the matter of attention to minorities astound me, when 'be patient, be quiet, endure, we'll get to you' has always been the Democrat Liberal's way. To quote MLK:

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season.""

The failings of the Democrat party are structural, but projecting them on others is lazy. [down]I am indeed glad that the party is changing and that the people who need it most are finally being given a voice and a reason to vote, instead of chasing after the mythical median voter.

Edited by Oruka on Jan 20th 2019 at 5:07:11 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#267954: Jan 20th 2019 at 4:54:54 PM

To be fair, the Democrats have already risen to his challenge, by changing their party platform to include more progressive positions, and by helping elect more progressive candidates, though one could argue that they have farther to go.

Edited by DeMarquis on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:55:21 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#267955: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:02:01 PM

Yes, I think Sanders has been a benefit for bringing the party further to the Left.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#267956: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:04:09 PM

His left mind you,not the useful progressive left that actually benefits the party

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#267957: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:07:27 PM

What is "his left"? So far as I know, his positions represent a genuine progressive agenda.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#267958: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:08:11 PM

[up][up]Define what those are. Be specific.

Edited by Oruka on Jan 20th 2019 at 5:08:29 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#267959: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:10:42 PM

I mean, there's a lot to be said about his flaws on various other progressive values, but it's not like the economic composition of the left wing isn't all tangled up in it nowadays.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#267960: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:14:14 PM

> What is "his left"? So far as I know, his positions represent a genuine progressive agenda.

I mean his left as the left that leads to libertarianism

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#267961: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:15:13 PM

What.

The economic left wing leads to libertarianism, which is the extreme economic right wing?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#267962: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:16:04 PM

Whoops,think I'm getting mixed up

bugger

there goes my argument

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#267964: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:17:19 PM

So am I unfortunately,my argument sounded so good in my head too

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#267965: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:19:03 PM

The problem with Sanders' vision is that it puts minorities on the back of the bus. He's repeatedly prioritized economic justice and the issues of "ordinary Americans" over racial justice, thinking that if the former is settled the latter will just magically fix itself. He's also criticized "identity politics" (while simultaneously emphasizing the "white working class"), which, as far as I'm concerned, kinda locks you out of being a true progressive.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 20th 2019 at 5:20:25 AM

i'm tired, my friend
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#267966: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:22:36 PM

Not that "true progressive" isn't a concerning phrase...

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#267968: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:27:24 PM

Indifference to minority issues and criticizing 'identity politics' is a fairly large red-flag, I'd hardly consider it unreasonable for a person (especially one who happens to be a minority) to view that as a deal breaker.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#267969: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:27:35 PM

My point is, he's not the progressive hero his base hails him as, and as I type this, I wonder how many times I've had to explain this to someone in this thread.

Sidebar, it says something about American politics when your platform can push minorities to the wayside and still be considered "progressive".

i'm tired, my friend
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#267970: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:29:36 PM

In other news, a certain U.S. Representative took a few minutes to drop in for a guest appearance on a Twitch charity stream earlier today. Color me impressed with her.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/aoc-visits-twitch-stream

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#267972: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:50:03 PM

[up][up] I missed that part, damn. That's pretty amazing!

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#267973: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:57:01 PM

Hell of a thing when the Sanders guy is the one quoting the "moderate white progressive" speech from MLK and saying that we're the ones tying things up.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267974: Jan 20th 2019 at 5:57:49 PM

[up][up][up]That doesn't actually make as strong a case for him as you think it does. It doesn't really disprove anything his detractors (including myself) have said about him.

"Economic progress helps minorities too!" is a bullshit argument. It's not an excuse to downplay or ignore "identity politics" (or as it should be called, civil rights). Anyone who does try that has no place calling themselves progressive.

After one too many racially tone-deaf gaffes from him over the years, many of us here are well and truly sick of Sanders. He's far from my first choice as Democratic Party nominee.

Edited by M84 on Jan 20th 2019 at 10:00:47 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#267975: Jan 20th 2019 at 6:03:07 PM

He may not focus on every topic that any given group on the left cares about, but he focuses on those that we all care about and which affect all of us.

You mean like American policing? Or discriminatory hiring practices?

This kind of myopia is exactly the problem with Sanders and his (white) supporters; they think everyone else has the same problems they do, and only those problems. They don't seem to be able to fathom that there are some issue unique to specific racial demographics.

i'm tired, my friend

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