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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267401: Jan 16th 2019 at 5:42:53 AM

I’ve found that issues take a backseat to the Sanders left. Gabbard is bulletproof in many ways to them.

As for the blue wave, Imca? No it wasn’t a myth the house proved that.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#267402: Jan 16th 2019 at 5:48:02 AM

[up]

I’ve found that issues take a backseat to the Sanders left. Gabbard is bulletproof in many ways to them.

Yeah, I got that feeling when people started calling Trevor Noah a "neolib shill" (and what not) for daring to talk about some of the controversial shit she did.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jan 16th 2019 at 2:48:34 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#267403: Jan 16th 2019 at 5:50:16 AM

It’s always hard to tell with the Sanders left, because much of what one sees from them is on social media, and I’d bet a sizeable sum of money that Gabbard is being biged up by Russian troll farms.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#267404: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:11:59 AM

My only worry about Gillibrand (other than I've been mentally spelling her name wrong for months) is her thing about "reaching across the aisle" or however she said it. It has been increasingly clear over the past couple of years (or several depending on who you ask) that Republicans cannot be worked with. If you reach out to them for a handshake they'll cut it off with a chainsaw.

One of Obama's weak points was that he was too trusting of Republicans. I don't want a Part 2 of that.

i'm tired, my friend
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#267405: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:13:36 AM

Shutdown’s Economic Damage Starts to Pile Up, Threatening an End to Growth It's ironic, isn't it? If Trump hadn't been so gung-ho about shutting down the government to fund the wall, he might've been able to ride "the economy is booming" thing as a major selling point for 2020. Well, if this article ends up proving true, he can't even use that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#267406: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:31:12 AM

My only worry about Gillibrand (other than I've been mentally spelling her name wrong for months) is her thing about "reaching across the aisle" or however she said it. It has been increasingly clear over the past couple of years (or several depending on who you ask) that Republicans cannot be worked with. If you reach out to them for a handshake they'll cut it off with a chainsaw.

Understandable concern, but one thing to keep in mind is that it's almost certainly bullshit to make independents who care about respectability politics feel good.

Like how Pelosi talked about bipartisanship in her speech and then immediately hit the ground running with reform and attacking the Trump White House, it was never serious, unlike Obama.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 16th 2019 at 9:31:41 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#267407: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:52:02 AM

Gillibrand seems to be angling for the centrist/apolitical crowdnote  and bipartisanship sounds good to people who're tired of hearing about the parties fighting. As such, I have no idea if she actually means any of it

Edited by Hylarn on Jan 16th 2019 at 6:55:07 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#267408: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:53:28 AM

Considering that she's near the bottom when it comes to voting with Trump I feel fairly safe assuming that she doesn't.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 16th 2019 at 9:53:42 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#267409: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:53:33 AM

On Trump Burgs, I probably would have the same taste, actually. I despise fancy food because the chefs put form over function in my eyes. What they see as sophisticated ends up being eltritch. I can say that Trump could have ordered something slightly classier though. Maybe take out from Swiss Chalet or Baton Rouge.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267410: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:53:42 AM

[up]I'd have gone with a place that makes decent smash burgers.

Edited by M84 on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:54:25 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#267411: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:57:18 AM

@Imca: "Time is all I have ever given these issues, time and time and more time, but guess what, things never improve, people always say it will improve if you just give it time, they always say that stuff like this isn't a strike against it.... and they are always incredibly wrong."

Well, depends. If you are referring to the fight to protect and promote the rights of women, that struggle never ends. Sexism will always be with us because people are born with a desire to acquire power and control others, so long as that is true then resistance against this tendency must go on forever.

If, however, we are restricting our comments to the national leadership of the Women's March, then that's only been a public issue since 2016. Enough time to demonstrate that the national leadership isn't able to fix this themselves, so now the feminist movement will have to find someone else to organize marches at the national level. That takes time.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#267412: Jan 16th 2019 at 6:58:12 AM

I see no problem in the actual burger selection, just the "order it early and put still-wrapped burgers on silver platters" thing.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#267413: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:02:35 AM

[up] It’s cold fast food burgers though. At least they could have gotten something a bit nicer than that.

Edited by megaeliz on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:04:30 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#267414: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:05:33 AM

Well, yes, that's the "order it early" problem. If you're going to order fast food in advance, order something that can actually be served cold.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jan 16th 2019 at 3:05:54 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#267415: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:08:54 AM

Not to mention that Feminism is about Gender equality...meaning it is not just fighting for women, it is fighting for BOTH genders. Sadly there are feminists group which haven't really graps what that means.

It is actually a shame that the LGTB movement and the feminist movement isn't working closer together, because a LOT of their goals align. After all, gender equality includes the right of a man to wear a dress if he feels like it.

Feminism will never end because we will never have perfect gender equality. There will always topics to discuss.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#267416: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:19:51 AM

[up] Uh, they do. They do work together. A lot.

Also, at the risk of sounding overly paranoid, which part of the LGBT equation are you suggesting has the primary goal to allow men to wear a dress? Not that I don't support that, I do, but I'm curious as to which angle you are approaching that from.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#267417: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:26:12 AM

[up][up] The Ruth Bader Ginsburg movie that just came out, "On the Basis of Sex", seems relevant. The case that the movie focused on, was about Gender Discrimination against a man.

Edited by megaeliz on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:27:23 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#267418: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:27:26 AM

At the risk of going off on a tangent, there are legitimate grievances in pushes for "men's rights": specifically that our society demands conformity from men to masculine stereotypes almost as much as it does from women to female stereotypes.

I'm not talking about the sexual politics, but that men are often subject to body shaming and behavior shaming, particularly if they appear or act "feminine". You'd think there would be a clear rapport between these and feminism movements that fight against the same kind of shaming directed at women.

Heck, we tolerate women wearing jeans quite a bit better these days than we do men wearing dresses.

The problem with the movements that actually label themselves "men's rights" is that they tend to be incredibly misogynistic and spiral off into sexual politics, ending up in a place that has nothing to do with whether we should demand conformity to masculine ideals.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:31:08 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#267419: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:30:56 AM

[up]Too bad MRA don't talk about how wrong it is to shame effeminiate men.

in fact, they endorse it.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#267420: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:31:56 AM

Yeah, I edited that in. "MRAs", ironically, demand conformity to masculine ideals even more strongly than baseline society. What I'm saying is that there is certainly room in the gender politics conversation to allow men to be nonconforming as well as women, but the people who claim to be standing up for men that conversation are pushing the exact opposite agenda.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:32:43 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#267421: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:36:15 AM

The problem is, the "Men's Rights" movement was a smokescreen for anti-feminism from the jump. They just gave it a title that sounds innocuous, like "pro-life" or "alt-right".

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:37:13 AM

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267422: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:37:45 AM

Just look at the fit they threw in response to that Gilette ad that had the message encouraging men to act better and not be assholes.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#267423: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:38:52 AM

Exactly. So now there's no room for actual "men's rights" groups to operate, since they'll be tarred by association regardless of the legitimacy of their grievances. It's a bit like how any merit the hashtag-that-shall-not-be-named movement had was almost instantly lost to the screaming fits of Internet misogynists.

It makes me glad that I wasn't raised to regard women as property and/or sex objects, but also scared that I could have been.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:41:01 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#267424: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:41:40 AM

I think feminism has been pretty welcoming to men’s issues, because those issues come from the patriarchy too. Case in point, a lot of Me Too! organizers have been supporting Terry Crews, who was sexually assaulted by a man.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267425: Jan 16th 2019 at 7:43:16 AM

Fighteer is of course correct on this. Men’s rights movements have been hideously coopted by misogynist lunatics like Paul Elam.

It takes a lot of work and advocacy to advance legitimate causes there, like suicide and incarceration, sexual and domestic abuse against men which go sadly under reported.


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