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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267351: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:12:49 AM

Getting rid of the malignant tumor doesn't get rid of the cancer, but it helps.

Disgusted, but not surprised
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267352: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:17:29 AM

I’m just not really a fan of the “everything was fine before Trump got here and once he’s gone it’ll be fine again” attitude a lot of people on the left seem to have.

It’s been a long, difficult fight for progress. It will continue to be a long and difficult fight. Trump is just one part of that, there’s lots more that needs to be done even now.

They should have sent a poet.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#267353: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:19:01 AM

Imca: Im sorry for hearing that but as someone who lived in a dictatorship(venezuela) I find your pesimist alarming and waaaaaay off and in a way, a deeply misunderstanding of how hard is to make a comback.

I mean look how Dem turn the house, have more suport and a good chance to kick trump and the republicans, all in what....2 years? most countries take at least at ENTIRE DECADE to get rid of their insane populist, hell some countries never recover at all or even when they do the damage is done, if not take a good example to my country who have the same insande party for OVER HALF AND DECADE, imaging trump for that amount of time and you can feel your hole spine freeze by dread.

US on the other hand have manage to fight back and they have make good progress: charlestonville shed away whatever respetability the alt right have, must of the awfull staff of trump is gone and the dem have even able to contain most of it from good part, even if worst case come to pass and Muller dosent deliver the silver bullet to the rep, trump second term is good as dead a this point and GOP will take years to be seen as anything else but their bookissers.

And to end this I want to said that as advise, when dealing with autocrats sometimes the best you can do is to contain then and make them paid each step they gain until you can return the tide in their favor then their flaws start showing, is not a easy job and is hard as hell(the US is lucky that trump is so petty and incompetent, excepcional as always), they have pull off what others like venezuela have not.

If anything, it make me more bitter for the state of my home, I would love to move there but alas, is not destiny for me right now.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#267354: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:20:46 AM

Transition would mean two years.

As for the Florida-Texas-Georgia mess, honestly that’s just people getting ahead of themselves. Look I get it, I had moment where I played with electoral maps and turned all three blue, it felt good, but afterwards I sat back down and acknowledged the reality, that Texas and Georgia are red states and nothing was going to happen there (though the fact that Kemp has to rig things so he’d win in Georgia was a show of strength by the democrats).

The swing states? That states that matter for 2020 and stoping Trump, they weren’t even competitive, we talk a lot about the right shifting the Overton window here, but boy did we shift it in 2018 with what states were comeptative, the states we lost in 2016 became the safe holds of 2018 and the states that we had no chance in in 2018 became the risky plays.

Florida hurt, it’s a big state and something went wrong there, I don’t know if the Florida Democratic Party fucked up, the pollsters fucked up, Scott did some Kemp like vote rigging, the Russians did something, the mass of black men dennined the vote impacted it or if Florida is just a red state and not the swing state we all tell ourselves it is.

Something is up with Florida, hopefully what it is can be worked out, but the fact that the focus was on Florida and not Pennsylvania was itself a huge victory.

Oh and for anyone wanting to get strait back in the fight it’s worth noting that 2019 has some elections happening, there are governors races in Louisiana, Kentucky and Mississippi, with there being a democrat incumbent in Louisiana.

Edited by Silasw on Jan 16th 2019 at 8:23:24 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#267355: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:43:54 AM

Regarding the Sunshine state, my impression is that Rick Scott leveraged his response to the hurricanes Irma and Maria and Michael in his favour while Nelson suffered from poor Latino reachout and these poorly designed Broward County ballots that made it hard to find where to vote for Senate. And that Gillum suffered from an FBI investigation he was tangentially involved in.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#267356: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:57:38 AM

I'm probably unique on these forums in that I think Trump is far less dangerous than the Republican Party was before and has done a good amount of damage to their inner workings.

He's an imbecile and while his executive orders have hurt severely, the simple fact is that he's an inconsistent asshole and caves on a lot of things.

My biggest hope on the Shutdown is that it ends like the Family Separation.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#267357: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:59:07 AM

[up][up]My best friend if Floridian and believes the state is deeply reactionary and hardcore conservative. It's been making progress in certain issues but is more or less a swing state in terms of Presidential elections not party in general.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 16th 2019 at 12:59:16 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#267358: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:04:13 AM

Nah, I also agree with the sentiment that Trump is no worse than the Republican Party in general.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267359: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:09:58 AM

Trump isn't the root of the problem, but he is a particularly malignant symptom of it. And he's keeping things from getting better.

Not just with the GOP. I'm talking the USA as a whole. I keep calling Trump the Ugly American for a reason.

Edited by M84 on Jan 16th 2019 at 5:10:27 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267360: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:15:02 AM

Hence why a laser focus on taking down Trump individually maybe isn’t the best tack to take. I think he commands more attention than he probably should be receiving.

They should have sent a poet.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#267361: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:17:59 AM

I have to wonder: What happens if the government stays shut down for the next two years?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#267362: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:18:55 AM

[up][up]I mean, the President should be receiving much attention should they not.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267363: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:23:22 AM

[up] Yes and no. Shifting the national discourse to the left, winning local and lower-level federal elections, preventing and punishing misbehavior in the government, these are all just as important as what the President’s up to. There’s a bit of a laser focus on Trump from the left, understandably, but it’s turned into an endless “mock every single thing he does” type of thing which feels somewhat unproductive.

They should have sent a poet.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#267364: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:29:36 AM

I'd like to second that. Some of the criticism Trump gets (such as the discussion of his eating habits) isn't consequential. And it is a convenient distraction for the Evil Turtles and pals.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267365: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:34:37 AM

Something I like to ask myself is “would I have an issue if the right did this to a Democratic President?”

Considering that I had an issue when the right dragged Obama through the mud for smoking, dragging Trump through the mud for being an unhealthy eater feels a little hypocritical.

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267366: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:40:43 AM

Except in this case no one is really judging Trump for eating Mc Donald's. Heck, I eat at Mickey D's on occasion.

And I actually kind of respect Trump's self-control in being a teetotaller even if I'm not one myself.

But I wouldn't serve it to guests on silver platters. Especially if they're not still fresh and hot. Serving cold Big Macs and Quarter Pounders to a football team as a celebratory meal? No. Just...no.

Edited by M84 on Jan 16th 2019 at 5:42:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#267367: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:42:11 AM

[up][up]sure, but they started it. Also, we're not critisising his eating habits, which are his own dann business, but the way he served cold greasy burgers to his guests, which is cheap, classless and insulting. Big difference.

EDIT [nja]

Edited by Kayeka on Jan 16th 2019 at 10:42:44 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267368: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:43:23 AM

But honestly, who cares? Again, if Obama had done that and the right was doing the mocking, would we have an issue?

Yes, Trump is a gross idiot. This thread has devoted many dozens of pages to joking about what a gross idiot he is, and I can’t help but see that as somewhat hypocritical. It doesn’t feel like productive political discourse at all.

Also...they started it? Really?

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 16th 2019 at 1:43:49 AM

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267369: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:44:06 AM

[up][up]And somehow the fact that the burgers were served on silver platters just makes the whole thing even tackier. The juxtaposition of the fancy platters and the cheap cold burgers is just so...Trump.

I think that's part of why a lot of people (including me) pay attention to shit like this. It just seems like a perfect visual metaphor for everything wrong with Trump as a whole. Cold fast food burgers on a garish silver platter.

Edited by M84 on Jan 16th 2019 at 5:47:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#267370: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:45:58 AM

There's nothing wrong with discussing Trump's boorish cheapass habits. It's not important but it's entertaining and that's enough.

Honestly, the small good side of Trump is the fact he really has been a Chernobyl for the Republican party. The entirety of its dark side has been laid bare and the systems its been using have been exposed. Its been laid into stark relief and the careers of countless people who have functioned on dog whistles as well as misdirection have been exposed. Hundreds of careers of truly appalling people have been destroyed and while there's thousands more to take their place, the damage to the Machine (and I use the capitalized M deliberately) is significant.

The Tea Party was uncontrollable and if not gave us Trump then paved the way for him.

They exposed the rotted foundations and termites in America and now we can treat the problem.

Or, to go back to my original metaphor, Chernobyl didn't make the Soviet Union's flaws but it exposed them.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 16th 2019 at 1:46:38 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267371: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:50:11 AM

Besides, I think it's important to have a little levity on occasion in this thread. Especially considering the occasions we get doomsaying or needless over the top pessimism here.

Disgusted, but not surprised
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267372: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:50:20 AM

[up][up][up] Mocking the food is a sideshow that’s just going to be thrown back in everyone’s faces by canny Republicans in a month.

If there’s something that should be catching our attention about the visit it’s the fact that the food is a nakedly obvious political stunt, that the visit was pushed forward three months to coincide with the shutdown, and that the Trump admin has steadfastly refused to recognize and women’s championship teams.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 16th 2019 at 1:50:38 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#267373: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:51:10 AM

If Obama had embarrassed himself and the whole of the White House by serving honoured guests a meal which is gross, insulting and tacky rolled in one, yes, I would have cared. I agree, though, that this is currently not be biggest Snafu Trump has done. Doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it. especially considering how well this summons up his whole presidency.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#267374: Jan 16th 2019 at 2:04:08 AM

The fact that this whole food thing is even a serious topic of discussion is a great example of everything that’s wrong with the left today.

Fixating on all the wrong things, falling for obvious political traps, and apparently having no self-awareness about either.

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267375: Jan 16th 2019 at 2:07:14 AM

Eh, it's hardly a serious topic of discussion. Not like the whole Women's March thing was.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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