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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#267276: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:31:08 PM

Worth noting that Womens March organizations at the state and city level have also disassociated themselves from the top group over this.

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#267277: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:33:03 PM

How did Farrakhan get involved with the Women's March in the first place? Given some of the things he's said, I'm pretty baffled he got to be involved with them in the first place.

And what's the deal with Farrakhan and Obama meeting? I've heard about how that happened, but considering my dad was the first I heard it from, I can't trust a lot of what he says considering he thinks Obama is the anti-christ and he called me an idiot with no value for being against Trump.

Power of Thor!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#267278: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:33:43 PM

Again, that is NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying they should then back more feminist organizations than they already do as a response.

They aren't responding to you, they're responding to Imca's argument.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267279: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:33:45 PM

I think it's more that Farrakhan was connected to people who're high up. Tamika Mallory called him 'the GOAT'

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267280: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:33:50 PM

[up][up][up]Because one of the March's co-leaders is a friend of Farrakhan.

[nja]

Edited by M84 on Jan 15th 2019 at 10:34:22 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#267281: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:39:33 PM

The most important thing for the primary IMO is for things to not get too ugly and that the resulting candidate is someone who most democratic voters will be ok with rallying behind. While there are other factors that will influence the election like voter suppression and russian interference, Donald and the GOP are very unpopular so if the Democrats have a decent candidate then they should be perfectly feasible to beat.

Imca (Veteran)
#267282: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:52:47 PM

And it would also look kind of bad if the DNC outright announced "We think the Women's March sucks. Join this feminist organization instead."

It would look better then what it looks like now, which is "We don't actually care about women at all, we only say that we do so they vote for us"

It's more like having a bunch of cars you use on occasion and noticing that one of the cars has a serious engine problem. And no matter how often you tried to fix it, the problem doesn't go away. At which point you decide the car is no longer worth the trouble.

And some one who actualy cared about those cars, rather then just saying they did would still replace it, because it ment something to them, either out of collectors value or utility.

Worth noting that Womens March organizations at the state and city level have also disassociated themselves from the top group over this.

And does the DNC at least still support those?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#267283: Jan 15th 2019 at 6:58:49 PM

The local Democratic groups almost certainly do.

The Democrat offices help support some of the protests and marches near me when it happens in the counties their in.

Edited by LeGarcon on Jan 15th 2019 at 10:00:37 AM

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267284: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:00:09 PM

[up][up]No, what it looks like is "We at the DNC don't put up with anti-semitic bullshit."

And no, they wouldn't replace that car. They'd instead devote more attention to the rest of their cars.

Edited by M84 on Jan 15th 2019 at 11:01:04 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#267285: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:05:53 PM

Feminism as a movement certainly isnt going away. What will inevitably happen is that the local groups will re-organize under a new unbrella, one that can better represent their interests with less baggage. The movement will re-emerge and will be stronger than before. Give it some time.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#267286: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:07:10 PM

Suppose that report is jaw-dropping and just full of evidence of all kinds of crimes.

Aren't the odds more than a little likely that the Republicans in power will simply shrug their shoulders, say "So what?" and allow nothing to happen?

Yes. And if that happens, it will probably result in the biggest landslide vote in the last hundred years. Personally I'm not holding my breath that the report will prove Trump is a Russian turncoat or human trafficker, but the worse the report looks, the better the odds of getting the politically apathetic off their mentally lazy asses to vote him and the GOP out of office.
Panicking because Trump gave a football team a bunch of Big Macs isn't really a good idea.
I'm not panicking over it, just sighing heavily in resignation and disgust, like I do at most things Trump.
Honestly, we (meaning those opposing Trump in general) give Trump too much flak for his Mc Donald's... honestly, which makes us look a bit snobbish.
Trump likes to eat McDonald's and send Chris Christie through the drive-thru to pick up his Big Mac and diet Coke? Cool; I never criticized him for that because, well, I eat there too occasionally. Greeting a championship team with cold fast food as their celebratory dinner? I'm honestly surprised they didn't walk out, because that's downright insulting.
how strong is anti-Biden sentiment among Democratic voters?
I'm not aware of any anti-Biden sentiment.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267287: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:07:24 PM

[up][up]Hopefully without close personal ties to hate group leaders.

[up]Note that my earlier post was in response to someone worried that serving Big Macs to a football team would increase Trump's chances of winning in 2020.

Edited by M84 on Jan 15th 2019 at 11:09:13 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#267288: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:14:39 PM

Imca, you may want to consider that several local chapters of the greater "Women's March" social movement have decried the national Women's March organization's leadership over the controversy, to the point of outspoken rejection and instances of "dueling marches" (basically, the national organization has tried to exert/take control of some local marches).

From Wikipedia alone, the Women's March chapters that have broken off with the national group include the ones in the following: New York City, Washington State, California, Illinois, Louisiana, and Michigan.

Edited by MarqFJA on Jan 15th 2019 at 6:16:26 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Imca (Veteran)
#267289: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:15:40 PM

Feminism as a movement certainly isnt going away. What will inevitably happen is that the local groups will re-organize under a new unbrella, one that can better represent their interests with less baggage. The movement will re-emerge and will be stronger than before. Give it some time.

Time is all I have ever given these issues, time and time and more time, but guess what, things never improve, people always say it will improve if you just give it time, they always say that stuff like this isn't a strike against it.... and they are always incredibly wrong.

What did time do back in 2012 when the hashtag that cant be named was happening, did the issues go away then? No they got worse and culminated in the alt right.

What did time do back in 2016 when the cheeto put a major dent in progress, did it get any better? No even fighting tooth and nail we still got a rapist on the courts and our rights eroded.

It is past the point where a tool in the box can be discarded, because otherwise we are never going to see any change in our lifetimes, and at that point why even bother.

[up] Agian, no source has been provided on the local groups attempting to upsur the national group, nor continued suport for the local ones.

Edited by Imca on Jan 15th 2019 at 7:16:49 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267290: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:16:59 PM

Yes, elections do have consequences.

I'm not really understanding your argument. By disavowing one group with leaders who have ties to an anti-semite, they don't care about women?

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 15th 2019 at 7:17:38 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267291: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:20:09 PM

I'm kind of interested in what the Jewish posters have to say about this.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#267292: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:23:24 PM

...Yeah, I'm actually kinda with the other posters on this point, Imca. Like, I'd like it if the Democrats had used the time to boost support for other organizations, but I'd still rather this than them not condemning it at all.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#267293: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:24:10 PM

As a descendant of a Holocaust survivor, I'm appalled by anti-semitic groups managing to hijack a feminist movement. It not only gives feminism itself a bad name, it will just cause the usage of the "SJW" buzzword as a way to insult progressives more vindicated then they have any right to be.

Watch Symphogear
Imca (Veteran)
#267294: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:26:00 PM

I'm not really understanding your argument. By disavowing one group with leaders who have ties to an anti-semite, they don't care about women?

By disavowing the single most notable public group for womens issues, they send the message that they don't care. Its not just "One group" it is the single most notable group, which is why I compare it to disvowing the king marches, and keep asking for sources on the local ones going to war on the naitonal one, or if the suport of the minor ones is still a thing.

If it was just about any other group, the response would be different, but you cant seperate notability out of these kinds of things.

Compounded by not at least throwing there hat in to the ring with an alterntive to try and get them rolling instead.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267295: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:40:21 PM

[up]So you're saying the DNC should only ditch groups with ties to hate groups if they aren't popular?

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#267296: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:44:25 PM

To be fair (although the leaders have BADLY botched this) the Women’s March is not affiliated with the Nation of Islam. A leader is friends with Farrakhan and refuses to properly denounce him because of years of history.

I think the Women’s March has handled this badly. I understand why Farrakhan still has some support for his work in the black community, but at Mallory’s level, she can’t brush away his vicious anti-Semitism.

Imca (Veteran)
#267297: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:44:33 PM

If they aren't the most promising tool in the closet to make change happen, at least not without a replacement lined up.

Plus as.... [up] said.

Edited by Imca on Jan 15th 2019 at 7:45:06 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#267298: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:48:30 PM

I think it’s also understandable that until the Women’s March sets things straight, the DNC doesn’t want to be affiliated. The DNC already supports Planned Parenthood and a bunch of other, less well known groups like Emily’s List; given how much antisemitism has increased in the last couple years, the DNC being fed up is the right response.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#267299: Jan 15th 2019 at 7:49:29 PM

And it's totally understandable that the local branches are willing to defy the national organization. It's not like the national organization has treated them with any respect.

Embattled Women’s March Finally Releases Financial Records

In addition to the charges of anti-Semitism, several sister chapters have said the main march has failed to support their efforts financially while at the same time leveraging their donors for the national chapter.

Mercy Morganfield, the former president of the Women’s March DC, has accused the leaders of the national march of co-opting the movement to line their own pockets.

The 990 forms don’t include a detailed rundown of how money was spent, but they show that board members were not taking exorbitant paychecks; salaries of the officers range from $26,400 to $73,404. Half of the program-centric spending was focused largely on the Women’s Convention in October 2017, and the rest was spent on Women’s March on Washington in January 2017 and four smaller events, according to a pie chart in the group’s annual report.

There did not appear to be any donations to sister marches, a key point of contention for some state-based activists—and a point Morganfield has made both online and to The Daily Beast. In fact, on their tax forms, the Women's March Inc. checked off “no” on a question that asked if it has local chapters, branches or affiliates.

Asked for her reaction to the group’s financials, Morganfield was blunt.

“I don’t believe it,” she said of the breakdown of spending. “To me, it’s laughable. It’s like ‘I did not collude with Russia.’”

Edited by M84 on Jan 15th 2019 at 11:50:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267300: Jan 15th 2019 at 8:26:22 PM

Speaking as a Jewish troper?

Please stop trying to make us not matter by saying we don't care about women if we want the Women's March denounced for having anti-semite associated folks as its leaders. The idea they don't care about women's issues for that when you look at the platforms is absurd.


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