TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266976: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:03:18 AM

There’s also a big difference between “you can learn welding, carpentry, or get a degree, and then get a job when you’re out” versus “we’re renting you out to a lingerie company to piece lingerie and lol they won’t hire you once you’re out; they’ll use whoever gets your cell when you leave.” Or making incarcerated people fight fires for $1 an hour, literally risking their lives, but banning them from becoming firefighters once free.

Here’s a list of a bunch of examples. And yeah, no, the majority of these aren’t building skills for after release.

And beyond the MASSIVE ethical issues, this also screws up the local economy via undercutting.

In 1997, according to Prison Legal News, Boeing subcontractor Micro Jet had prisoners cutting airplane components, paying $7 an hour for work that paid union wages of $30 on the outside.

That’s not rehabilitation, that’s exploitation.

And yeah, Bernie Madoff sucks, but how does locking him up actually help anything? Force him to repay all his victims. Confiscate/sell all his property bought with the proceeds. Ban him from financial jobs. But how does him painting a fence or making license plates in prison help anyone? I hate, hate, HATE white collar crime, which can wreak havoc on millions of lives, and is way underprosecuted, but I doubt Madoff being in jail deters other white collar criminals. So what’s the damn point? Vengeance? Cause it’s not justice.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#266977: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:03:55 AM

I recommend Charles reads up on chain gangs because that's typically what springs to mind when someone mentions prison labour

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#266978: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:24:35 AM

Nate Silver has written a few considerations for the Democratic primaries that might be of interest. That gives Kamala Harris good chances.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266979: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:29:25 AM

Literally nothing has happened yet; I find these sort of statistical analyses to be a bit pointless.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#266980: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:37:12 AM

If it was coming from anyone other then Nate Silver i'd be inclined to agree but Nate is fairly reliable,but then again Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics exists for a reason

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266981: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:41:34 AM

No matter how good he is at statistics, we’re so early on that whatever input he’s using is extremely limited. It’s like doing an NFL prediction before the first game of the season- yeah, you can do it, based on the current team rosters and coaching, but you’re not basing your prediction on any actual gameplay.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 14th 2019 at 8:42:37 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266982: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:27:24 AM

Considering they also do sports analysis (for whatever reason) that's a rather apropos metaphor wink

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#266983: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:50:29 AM

I'm fairly certain he started with sports analysis and moved onto politics. Also owned by ESPN IIRC.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#266984: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:50:45 AM

The guy owned a betting website before he sold it and yes,sports analysis.Play may not have started yet but if he knows the odds and it's worth considering considering what he's saying,dismissing him is unwise I think

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 14th 2019 at 2:51:45 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#266985: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:52:27 AM

Fair point on prematurity (then again, I don't expect the Washington kindergarten to produce anything interesting for a while) but I can't pass up the part about how some donors don't like Gillibrand because she pushed Franken out. WTH.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266986: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:59:29 AM

Fair point on prematurity (then again, I don't expect the Washington kindergarten to produce anything interesting for a while) but I can't pass up the part about how some donors don't like Gillibrand because she pushed Franken out. WTH.

Yeah, it's really fucked.

Though, I could see something like that really working in her favor. Being opposed by a literal old boys club isn't something that will hurt her standings amongst Democratic voters, quite the opposite.

Also, I have to say that Five Thirty Eight's description was rather hilarious:

But her calls for Sen. Al Franken to resign — issued after several women accused him of groping them — reportedly triggered a backlash among some donor-class Democrats, who [warning, editorial comment ahead] apparently don’t care how stupid they look for blaming a woman for a man’s #Me Too! problems.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#266987: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:04:40 AM

If she runs, I feel like donating to her just to spite them.

Also owned by ESPN IIRC.

ABC, actually. But they're both owned by the House of Mouse, so potato, potatoe.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266988: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:07:59 AM

If she runs, I feel like donating to her just to spite them.

Yeah, that's part of the reason my support for her has solidified.

There's no way she couldn't have predicted this kind of response and yet she turned on Franken anyway, I respect that kind of principle. As a feminist, I trust her significantly more to seriously advance female empowerment then Sanders or Biden.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 14th 2019 at 10:08:09 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#266989: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:25:49 AM

So I heard a story of a guy rationing his Insulin because of the government shutdown and his lack of paycheck. Is there anyway to force this? Or are people going to die because of Trump? I can only hope that people who voted for Trump are also feeling the effects and don't blame the Democrats, you know the people who actually are trying to help them.

American Conservatism needs to die as an ideology. If we hope to not have as much death and hatred we need this country to be farther to the left.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#266990: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:33:07 AM

Or are people going to die because of Trump?

Going to?

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#266991: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:37:59 AM

Should have said "Or are more people going to die because of Trump?".

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#266992: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:45:48 AM

  • Improper funding for public schools in disadvantaged areas.
  • The War on Drugs providing quick and easy arrests for relatively benign crimes.
  • Systemic prejudice in our police and in our courts, applying the law more harshly to minority targets.
  • Mandatory sentencing minimums to ensure a prolonged period of service for an incarcerated person.
  • Privatization of the prison system, turning human incarceration into a for-profit enterprise.
  • Slave labor still being legal for people convicted of a crime.

These are all factors that have resulted in what's known as the School-to-Prison Pipeline, a systemic construct that exists to usher minority kids out of schools and into prison as quick as they can, so that private entities can utilize them for cheap labor. Every single step of this process serves the same ultimate goal, and all need to be dismantled.

Let's not get hung up on "Is the problem REALLY the slave labor, or is it the private prisons?" Because the answer is both. They're both the problem, and they both need to go. This is what slavery looks like in America, and it is alive and well.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 14th 2019 at 8:46:16 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#266993: Jan 14th 2019 at 8:14:34 AM

I don't have an inherent problem with prison labor so long as:

  • It's voluntary.
  • There is some form of compensation, such as wages or credit towards their sentence/parole.
  • The prison system itself doesn't profit from it.

Heck, you can even look at it as a form of rehabilitation to reduce recidivism rates: give them a opportunity to experience gainful employment and they'll have an easier time finding work upon release. I can even see low-security prisons allowing work-release programs.

In combination with all of the other factors, though, it's something to be looked at with skepticism.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 14th 2019 at 11:18:05 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#266995: Jan 14th 2019 at 8:25:33 AM

If it's voluntary, calling it prison labour is misleading because of the conflation with forced labour.

On the flip side, I also don't have a problem with community service even though that is forced, because it doesn't involve the imprisonment and for-profit angles.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#266996: Jan 14th 2019 at 8:27:33 AM

From https://currentstatus.io :

Kremlin Blessed Russia’s NRA Operation, U.S. Intel Report Says

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kremlin-blessed-russias-nra-operation-us-intel-report-says

Bernie Sanders staffs up for 2020

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/14/bernie-sanders-campaign-2020-election-1098795

Transcripts detail how FBI debated whether Trump was 'following directions' of Russia

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/politics/trump-fbi-debate-investigation/index.html

Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 14th 2019 at 9:28:03 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#266997: Jan 14th 2019 at 8:44:01 AM

Bernie Sanders staffs up for 2020

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#266998: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:08:03 AM

I facepalmed when I realized that he's really going to do this.

Really hoping he doesn't win the primaries. And if he does...please, please don't let him pick Gabbard to be his VP candidate.

Edited by M84 on Jan 15th 2019 at 1:08:24 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#266999: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:14:49 AM

Well if he couldn't beat Hillary, I don't think he's going to get through this bout either.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#267000: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:17:24 AM

No surprise, Bernie doesn't know when to quit.

I don't see him winning the primary.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 14th 2019 at 9:20:49 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Total posts: 417,856
Top