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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#266626: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:28:00 PM

first off i just wanna note that the russian intervention didn't change the election in trump's favor. is it a big problem that needs to be discussed? yeah, but that wasn't what decided the election. her policies were harmful and made many feel disillusioned, not to mention her history of policy flipping and dogwhistling made some uncomfortable.

We're talking margins of a percentage point.

Any single cause is arguably enough to have pushed the election over to Trump (less so the house and senate, but I can't remember the 2016 margins there). You can't just dismiss foreign interference to focus on whatever about Hillary seems bad at any point in time.

[up] yeah well schumer and pelosi have contributed immensely to the continuation of reagan-inspired policies (lieberman is another one coming to mind)

1) Citation needed.

2) That doesn't make them neoliberal.

Again: use the word right or don't use it at all.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jan 11th 2019 at 3:28:45 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#266627: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:29:00 PM

Throwing around bothsiderism like crazy, misusing the word "neoliberal", taking offense at "Bernie Bro" before anyone actually called them one...

So many red flags...

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#266628: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:29:04 PM

first off i just wanna note that the russian intervention didn't change the election in trump's favor. is it a big problem that needs to be discussed? yeah, but that wasn't what decided the election.

You can argue that any one thing didn't change the results of the election in and of itself. That's the point, it's not down to just one easily identifiable factor, and especially not the one you're using.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266629: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:31:37 PM

Yeah, bud? I did 20-40 hours a week volunteering for Bernie in the primaries. Clinton still wrecked him because his campaign was badly managed and he completely wrote off the South. Hillary won the general by 3 million votes. So cut it out with the “Bernie coulda won everyone hates Hillary” crap.

As for the racism thing? Yeah, no, we’re not giving him passes. He constantly deflects on racial issues and acts like fixing economic issues will make systemic racism go away too. And that Gillum incident?

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."

If you’re uncomfortable about voting for someone for the sole reason that they’re black, that’s goddamn racist. We’re not mollycoddling white people in 2019.

[down] Ignoring my entire post to complain about the term Bernie bro does not productively add to the conversation.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:40:13 AM

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266630: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:32:42 PM

someone already had called me a bernie bro, and yeah the connotation is pretty fucking clear. it's great that this thread's decided to adopt a term that just utterly erases the work that minorities have done for bernie's campaign, not to mention it's a term that delegitimizes actual criticism of hillary clinton.

and speaking of clintons, if you want a huge piece of proof that neoliberalism isnt some political theory on the fringes, bill clinton was a proponent of moderate leftist neoliberalism, what with the dismantling of socialist policies implemented under FDR and NAFTA. schumer and pelosi have supported clinton-era economic policies since the start.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#266631: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:33:20 PM

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."

If that makes them uncomfortable, they're racist garbage, end of story.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#266632: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:34:44 PM

There was also his legendary advice to a young aspiring politician lady who asked him for advice. His response was something to the tone of "Don't just run on being a woman! Run on having actual policies!" As if there's this epidemic of women who get elected on nothing but their gender.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#266633: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:35:12 PM

Bernie Sanders is the White Progressive candidate, laser-focused on making "ordinary Americans" (in contrast to minorities, because apparently we're fucking aliens or something) while telling those same minorities "We'll get to you."

it's great that this thread's decided to adopt a term that just utterly erases the work that minorities have done for bernie's campaign

Are you seriously trying to pull some "he has X friends" shit here? Cause that's what that sounds like.

So minorities worked on his campaign. Peachy. That doesn't change that they are clearly less important than their white colleagues in his eyes.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:40:12 AM

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#266634: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:35:24 PM

Being uncomfortable with a candidate because of their race is pretty fucking racist.

[up]"Whites first" socialism basically. Which in practice usually ends up being "Whites only" socialism.

Edited by M84 on Jan 11th 2019 at 11:36:26 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#266635: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:35:56 PM

[up][up]

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."

If they didn't want to vote for an African American because they're an African-American, they're a racist. It's literally a case of 'I'm not a racist, but..."

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#266636: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:39:08 PM

[up][up]That's the interesting part actually. A lot of whites are actually pretty ok with government welfare policies (I believe one of them was quoted as saying "Well if they're there, why not use them?"). However the instant minorities (especially black people) stand to benefit from those policies, suddenly they are terrible and minorities are mooching off the government, have a cultural problem, etc.

Even Obama has gone on record criticizing this attitude after his presidency.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 11th 2019 at 11:39:47 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#266637: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:39:35 PM

After telling yourself for years that you're not racist, that you support civil rights and that you're a Progressive Of Awesome... it can get a bit uncomfortable when you discover you can't find it in yourself to vote for the black guy because he's black.

Because guess what that says about the underlying beliefs you convinced yourself you didn't have? Yup: unconscious racism you refuse to deal with consciously once it hits you that you have it... is still being racist.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jan 11th 2019 at 3:40:26 PM

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266638: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:40:07 PM

i'm not trying to pull some black best friend bullshit. the concept of a bernie bro is some angry cishet white male who lets out his misogynistic fury on hillary clinton, completely erasing the actual diversity of his fans. as a transwoman myself it feels condescending to have people tell me that i'm just a "bernie bro"

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#266639: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:41:07 PM

Good thing nobody here was doing that, then. Good try, though, that was particularly solid straw there.

i'm tired, my friend
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266640: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:41:27 PM

[up][up]Sorry for misgendering you with the term Bernie bro. Won’t happen again.

You still ignored the rest of my and everyone else’s posts.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:41:44 AM

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266641: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:43:34 PM

Good thing nobody here was doing that, then. Good try, though, that was particularly solid straw there.

jesus christ i'm saying that the term, no matter what intentions, is inherently minority erasure. am i saying that you guys are being specifically bigoted? no, i'm just saying to stop using the phrase cause of its implications.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266642: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:44:22 PM

You’re still deflecting on substance to fixate on a single term.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:44:35 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#266643: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:45:01 PM

[up][up]So what? "Bernie Sis" isn't exactly alliterative. Nor statistically accurate.

Deal with the label: it ain't budging by this point and making a flap about it is pretty deflecto-TERFy.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jan 11th 2019 at 3:47:39 PM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#266644: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:45:55 PM

moderate leftist neoliberalism

Hello, word salad.

There is nothing to the right of neoliberalism.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#266645: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:46:02 PM

"Sanders Sycophant" might work.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#266646: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:47:06 PM

Look, the point is, Bernie Sanders isn't the progressive beacon his damn fan club hails him to be. Just one more rambling old white man, which, if you've been paying attention, American politics isn't exactly wanting for.

i'm tired, my friend
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#266647: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:47:34 PM

[up]So what? "Bernie Sis" isn't exactly alliterative. Nor statistically accurate.
Sanders Sis?

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266648: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:48:00 PM

despite the fact that people clearly want him, according to almost every single post-election poll of potential 2020 candidates.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#266649: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:48:18 PM

Isn't he one of many of those, though?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#266650: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:48:40 PM

[up][up]So now you're appealing to popularity?

It doesn't change what he is or what he's said or done.

Edited by M84 on Jan 11th 2019 at 11:48:48 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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