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MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#266601: Jan 11th 2019 at 5:08:04 PM

Fine. Then back to my second question: He can't possibly get away with that, can he?

My second page-topper. Goody gumdrops

Edited by MrHellboy on Jan 11th 2019 at 7:08:30 AM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#266602: Jan 11th 2019 at 5:34:45 PM

[up] Problem is Trump is angling it that they won't allow the Democrats to reopen the Government unless they get their wall through the National Emergency path. So basically, if Trump never gets his wall, the Government will not be open, and as it drags on, other parts will shut down as well.

If Trump goes this route, and he still doesn't get his Wall, it would tank Republican popularity with Independents (the National Emergency declaration would do that on its own)... But I think if that happens the Republicans would gain a 2nd wind and the Shutdown will last even longer.

Honestly, at this point, I would argue that this intentional shutdown from the President is enough to impeach Trump.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#266603: Jan 11th 2019 at 5:36:56 PM

He's committed several impeachable offenses so far but unless there's a supermajority in both sections of Congress it won't happen.

Oh really when?
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#266604: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:11:20 PM

Either way, it's looking like the shutdown is going to continue for quite a while.

It's amazing that just a few people can hold the country hostage like this and there's nothing we can do about it.

When/if Democrats gain back power, we're going to need some serious rule changes

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#266605: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:28:57 PM

You have to remember that there is a court case underway to see if he's violated the Constitution on emoluments grounds. The shutdown has forced federal cases to be put on hold, including the one against Trump. Also, there were some FBI investigations going on into his businesses or campaign team (I can't remember which) that were independent of the Mueller investigation. The FBI has admitted that the shutdown is preventing it from functioning properly.

This shutdown is already protecting Trump from investigation and prosecution. On a personal level, he has absolutely no incentive to stop it.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 11th 2019 at 2:33:32 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266607: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:36:45 PM

Building off of that previous news story about Ocasio-Cortez leaving Democrats "exasperated": It really needs to be noted that civil disobedience has just about no place in an American empire. Any disruptive tactics within gov like that of AOC are just immediately looked down upon, even if in reality they're not that crazy when you look at past policies and such. Take the 70% marginal tax rate for people making over $10 million.

Essentially, what Republicans and neoliberal shits alike have decided to do is pretend to not know what a marginal tax rate is and instead say "oh she's gonna take 7 million dollars from these people" which isn't how it works at all. Hell, you look at the policies of presidents up to Nixon and some had marginal tax rates at up to 100%. This specifically was seen during FDR's presidency, a time of unprecedented economic growth for the country. Must be a coincidence.

The fact that she isn't going to settle for "bipartisanship" and "they go low, we go high" ideas means she poses a real threat to the status quo-loving moderates. With AOC and other political figures like her come these strong ideas of a Green New Deal and trying to abolish ICE. Meanwhile, neoliberal politicians like Pelosi and Schumer continue to take donations from fossil fuel corporations and give billions to border security while also criticizing Trump for his focus on border security.

The facts that AOC won't settle with Republicans and that she actually has economically progressive beliefs (ones that correlate with the beliefs of fucking Nobel laureates) mean that she is an actual threat to neoliberalism and bipartisanship with a focus on conservatism.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#266608: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:37:16 PM

Ivanka's name being floated around as a possible US candidate for World Bank president.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#266609: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:41:16 PM

[up] Excuse me, I have to run over to my toilet...

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#266610: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:47:42 PM

I would too but I already puked after hearing Gabbard was running for President.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#266611: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:58:30 PM

Better politics through Bulimia...

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/01/11/day-722/

    Day 722: Embarrassing 
1/ The government shutdown entered day 21 as Congress left for the weekend following another round of stalled negotiations to end the shutdown – ensuring that the partial government shutdown will become the longest in history. The House and Senate, however, both passed a measure to ensure that federal workers who are furloughed receive back pay once the government reopens, which now goes to Trump for his signature. The House also passed another bill to reopen more government departments, but is likely DOA in the Senate because of a veto threat from Trump. The second-longest shutdown stretched for 21 days from December 1995 until January 1996, due to a dispute between Bill Clinton and the Republican-led Congress at the time. (CNN / Politico / Washington Post / Associated Press)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/politics/government-shutdown-ties-record-longest/index.html

2/ An estimated 800,000 federal employees missed their first paycheck due to the shutdown. In particular, more than 24,000 FAA employees, including air traffic controllers, are working without pay, since their positions are considered vital for "life and safety," and more than 17,000 other have been furloughed – told to stop doing their jobs. (NBC News / CNN / Washington Post / New York Times)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/politics/shutdown-paycheck-what-it-looks-like-trnd/index.html

Federal crop payments have stopped flowing to farmers, who say they cannot get federally-backed operating loans to buy seed for their spring planting, or feed for their livestock because of the shutdown. Farmers also can't look up government data about beef prices or soybean yields to make decisions about planting and selling their goods. Some farmers have said the loss of loans, payments and other services has pushed them to a breaking point. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has curtailed inspections due to the shutdown, while the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has suspended health exposure assessments. Cash assistance to buy groceries are funded through February. (The Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/11/government-shutdown-food-safety-fda-donald-trump

White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett compared the shutdown to getting a free "vacation" for furloughed workers and that they might be "better off" after they return to work. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/11/white-house-economic-adviser-shutdown-vacation-for-workers-1098380

3/ The Trump administration is laying the groundwork to declare a national emergency and possibly using a portion of the Army's $13.9 billion disaster fund to pay for his border wall. The money is meant to fund civil works projects, including repairing storm-damaged areas of Puerto Rico through 2020. Jared Kushner, meanwhile, has urged Trump to try to find other approaches than declaring a national emergency, but said an emergency should be invoked only if it creates a clear path for the White House to build the wall. Democrats are exploring both legislative and legal options to challenge a possible national emergency declaration. (NBC News / New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / The Guardian)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-could-take-billions-disaster-areas-fund-wall-n957281

UPDATE: Trump said he is not looking to declare a national emergency "right now" for his border wall, a day after suggesting he would "probably" do so. Trump instead urged "Congress to do its job" and vote, again, on funding for the wall. Yesterday, Trump claimed his lawyers had told him that a national emergency declaration – allowing him to bypass Democrats in Congress – would hold up to legal scrutiny "100%." (Washington Post / The Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/11/trump-national-emergency-border-wall-shutdown

4/ Trump falsely denied that he ever promised that Mexico would "write out a check" for his border wall, except he did: at least 212 times during the campaign and more since taking office. In a March 2016 memo, Trump outlined that Mexico would "make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion" for the wall. Trump has more recently resorted to a baseless claim that Mexico will now indirectly pay for the wall through the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which has not been ratified by Congress, and contains no provisions earmarking money for the wall. (Washington Post / New York Times)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-story-keeps-changing-trump-falsely-asserts-he-never-promised-mexico-would-directly-pay-for-the-border-wall/2019/01/10/92ffee8e-14f5-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html

poll/ 74% of Americans call the shutdown "embarrassing," with 72% saying the shutdown is going to hurt the country. (NPR)

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/11/684300134/most-americans-call-shutdown-embarrassing-as-it-s-set-to-become-longest-in-histo

poll/ 51% of adults believe Trump "deserves most of the blame" for the shutdown. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown-poll-idUSKCN1P223U

poll/ 39% of Americans favor building a wall, while 59.1% oppose it. Among Republicans, 74.1% favor a wall, while 85.4% of Democrats oppose it. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2019/01/11/americans-dont-want-trumps-border-wall-heres-what-they-think-should-happen-instead/

Notables.
The U.S. began withdrawing some equipment – but not troops – from Syria. Military officials have refused to provide details about specific timetables or movements, but a spokesperson said "the process of our deliberate withdrawal from Syria" has begun. He continued: "Out of concern for operational security, we will not discuss specific timelines, locations or troops movement." The number of troops or vehicles that have been withdrawn also remains unknown at this time. (Associated Press / ABC News / New York Times)

https://apnews.com/89288a2b8f274eb7897733078960df56

The United States approved thousands of child bride requests over the past decade. From 2007 through 2017, there were 5,556 approvals for those seeking to bring minor spouses or fiancees, and 2,926 approvals by minors seeking to bring in older spouses. The Immigration and Nationality Act does not set minimum age requirements, and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services goes by whether the marriage is legal in the home country. (Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/19e43295c76d4d249aa51c9f643eb377

Rudy Giuliani thinks Trump's legal team should be allowed to "correct" Robert Mueller's final report before Congress or the American people get the chance to read it. Giuliani went on to call it "a matter of fairness," because the special counsel "could be wrong." (The Hill)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/424871-exclusive-trump-team-should-be-allowed-to-correct-final-mueller

Steve King doesn't understand why the phrases "white nationalist" and "white supremacist" have "become offensive." The nine-term Iowa Republican and Trump ally declared himself an "American nationalist" in a statement while defending his support of "western civilization's values." (New York Times / Politico / The Guardian)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/10/steve-king-white-supremacy-congress-1077665

Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 11th 2019 at 7:59:17 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#266612: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:02:13 PM

Schumer was on Pod Save America yesterday, talking about the meeting he and Pelosi had with Trump. Here are some of the details he shared:

Schumer: [Trump] was agitated. You could see when he walked in the room that he didn't want to be there. He actually admitted, 'I don't want to be here. My staff made me be here.' I've said it before, negotiating with President Trump is like negotiating with Jello. he states mistruths regularly, he'll state one thing that contradicts something he said two minutes earlier. He tries to talk over people and not listen. It's a surreal experience being there with him.

The Pod hosts ask him if there's any chance of a deal being made short of Republicans just folding:

Schumer: There's a lot of talk, you know, well, lets do something on border security for DACA or for immigration. The problem is been there done that! Every time that we try to do this and he initially says he'll be for it the Ingraham's, and the Coulter's, and the Limbaugh's beat him up call his Amnesty Donald... and he backs off. He's done it three times already. So I don't think that is a fruitful way to go. I think we're just going to have to stay firm.

He goes on to discuss how Senate Republicans are so afraid of Trump backing far right candidates against them that they don't want to buck his orders. But that's gradually eroding and Schumer is confident that the popular opposition to Trump's shutdown will eventually made them bend. He also doesn't think Trump's threat of using emergency powers will stand up to legal scrutiny.

On Mc Connell:

Schumer: [Mc Connell] was objecting to us bringing up the Open Up the Government Bills, and I said to him "Leader Mc Connell, I have three words for you: Open. The. Government." And then I said said it's in your hands. And he had nothing to say. He knows he's stuck. He's stuck because his party is divided with more of them still sticking with Trump than the number that will come with us.

On Trump:

Schumer: One of the reasons Nancy and I go to these meetings is to speak the truth. He's in sort of this bubble and you can see it with the staff around him. No one tells him what's going on, the truth. So he likes to brag that all these government workers are for shutting down the government, for the wall. And I told him, I said, "There are counties in upstate New York that you carried in in 2016 and that I carried. Let me tell you what's happening: [Describes how people are suffering because of the shut down]. Don't be under the illusion that people like what you are doing, they don't. It's very bad for you." You should have seen his face, he doesn't hear things like that."

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266613: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:03:34 PM

also going back through previous pages and lol why does everyone here hate bernie so much

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#266614: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:05:16 PM

As a former Bernie volunteer, my beef is his ever-increasing ego and his refusal to grow and do better on racial issues and reproductive rights.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#266615: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:07:08 PM

The way I understand it is he did more harm than good in his anti-Clinton rhetoric during the election, his economic ideas were pie-in-the-sky and didn't stand up to scrutiny, and he's consistently displayed serious tone-deafness in regards to race issues.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#266616: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:08:46 PM

Disillusionment, partly. The rest is the fact that Sanders sticks his foot in his mouth constantly and approaches everything with the idea that general economic improvement will solve all problems. Basically, what he has going for him economically he manages to squander whenever racial or gender issues come up.

Not that he's a bad person so far as politicians go, but he causes facepalming a lot.

Meanwhile, neoliberal politicians like Pelosi and Schumer continue to take donations from fossil fuel corporations and give billions to border security while also criticizing Trump for his focus on border security.

They're definitely not neoliberal. Any neoliberal politician would advocate for getting rid of all government assistance.

Either use the term right or don't use it at all. It doesn't sound smart if used as a random insult.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#266617: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:10:00 PM

As a former Bernie volunteer, my beef is his ever-increasing ego and his refusal to grow and do better on racial issues and reproductive rights.

Yep. He seems more concerned with "winning" on his terms and getting off on being an outsider, instead of doing the groundwork for eventual progressive reforms. His record on race issues is also dodgy at best at this point, and even that is probably too generous.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 11th 2019 at 11:11:56 AM

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#266618: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:11:32 PM

[up][up] I think we're dealing with a definite Bernie Bro here, to be very honest and blunt. Their description of Democratic politicians as "neoliberal" and putting that little "lol" in the front of "why does everyone here hate Bernie" has already sent off alarms in my head.

Also, Bernie has pretty thoroughly proven himself to be a white socialist. From sending that nuclear waste to a majority-Hispanic town to his "don't just say 'I'm a Latino!'" crap...

Edited by SciFiSlasher on Jan 11th 2019 at 9:12:47 AM

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266619: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:12:47 PM

most of the proof that he isn't progressive enough on race topics is by people cherrypicking quotes of his, like when he talked about the racist nature of the attacks on gillum and every news outlet clung onto the one part where he clarified that he wasn't calling everyone who voted against gillum racist as proof that he wasn't progressive enough.

the fact of the matter is that you're not going to find many candidates more progressive than bernie. sure, there's warren, but there's no way in hell she'd make it through trump's constant attacks. in an age where electoral politics is almost entirely surrounding image, she wouldn't stand a chance. o'rourke is a centrist piece of shit, kamala harris is a crooked cop, ocasio-cortez can't run, joe biden is a neoliberal, etc.

the attack on his ego is an odd one. like corbyn, a lot of bernie's appeal at the start of his growing movement was how disheveled he was. it made him seem more down-to-earth than most other candidates cause he wasn't just trying to look good for the news clips. compared to other candidates, bernie doesn't seem to focus much on character. instead, he actually focuses a lot on policy, which is def something we need more of.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266620: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:17:12 PM

and really anyone trying to say that sanders' 2016 campaign was problematic cause it hurt hillary's chances of winning is missing the big picture here. hillary lost because she was a weak, establishment politician like biden and obama, someone that a growing percentage of the democrats didn't actually want in office.

schumer and pelosi, as people who famously are against taxing the rich even the slightest, definitely have neoliberal policies at the very least. and ignoring that is only going to make the problem worse, as we just saw in the last presidential election.

and come on, is calling me a bernie bro really the best idea?

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#266621: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:19:43 PM

I mean you're really not doing a good job of disproving it.

Oh really when?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#266622: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:20:39 PM

and come on, is calling me a bernie bro really the best idea?

I was about to say "maybe we shouldn't jump to personal attacks off the bat" but your last two posts aren't exactly a good look on that front.

For one thing, I think implying Hillary lost because she's an "establishment politician most democrats don't want" is pretty disingenuous. Hillary lost due to a multitude of complex factors, like russian intervention, a maligned history of scandals particular to her person which justified or not affected public opinion of her, misoginy and racism, etc.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 11th 2019 at 11:22:23 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#266623: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:20:50 PM

"and come on, is calling me a bernie bro really the best idea?"

Of course it is. You have to call a spade a spade.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#266624: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:24:38 PM

schumer and pelosi, as people who famously are against taxing the rich even the slightest, definitely have neoliberal policies at the very least. and ignoring that is only going to make the problem worse, as we just saw in the last presidential election.

Neoliberalism is the extreme end of free market economics, deriving mostly from Milton Friedman, and famously implemented by Pinochet and (to a lesser extent) by Thatcher and Reagan. It's extreme advocacy for deregulation by the government, reducing taxes, and using a private, market-focused approach to any problem rather than having the government step in. At the extreme end it goes into minarchism and anarcho-capitalism.

Given that Schumer and Pelosi aren't in favour of destroying the welfare state just to reduce taxes to nothing, nor removing all regulation, in the belief that the guiding hand of the free market will sort it out for the best, they are not neoliberal politicians.

golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#266625: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:25:40 PM

[up] yeah well schumer and pelosi have contributed immensely to the continuation of reagan-inspired policies (lieberman is another one coming to mind)

first off i just wanna note that the russian intervention didn't change the election in trump's favor. is it a big problem that needs to be discussed? yeah, but that wasn't what decided the election. her policies were harmful and made many feel disillusioned, not to mention her history of policy flipping and dogwhistling made some uncomfortable.

second off how exactly are you defining a bernie bro? cause if you're saying that i'm probably some sexist white male bernie fan that vehemently despised hillary from the start, that's definitely not the truth. i actually liked hillary until she lost and i started to look into why that was. hell, two years ago i was a moderate democrat but by now i'm just a full on anarcho-communist.

i'm not gonna say bernie is perfect but i really think that the constant attacks on him are counterproductive to the survival of the democratic party. it's only increasing the divide between the moderates and the far leftists, what with the idea of negotiating with the republicans creeping back into the spotlight.

Edited by golgothasArisen on Jan 11th 2019 at 9:26:45 AM

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"

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