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DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#265926: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:17:17 PM

There really need to be rules in place that allow Minority Leaders the right to bring up legislation in either house. McConnell's power play wouldn't be possible if the rules allowed Schumer the right to constantly bring up legislation from the House.

Of course, this would mean that Republicans would then do the same thing whenever they would be in the Minority, but I think Democrats would be proud to vote against their terrible ideas.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#265927: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:24:32 PM

One thing I will say - if Pelosi really does go to negotiate with Putin directly, I'm honestly reminded of that whole debacle with the Republican Congress members attempting to directly negotiate with Iran, if I remember correctly. Yes, Trump is an incompetent and should be knowingly excluded from... every exercise of the Executive Branch, but I don't know if negotiating directly with a semi-hostile foreign leader is really in the Speaker's job description either, if that makes sense.

It's been fun.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#265928: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:26:56 PM

I think people are hoping the Republicans will chose to abandon a sinking ship, even if they need to be handheld into seeing that the ship is sinking. For all of there terrible practices and what not only the most fanatical would keep fighting a lost battle.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#265929: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:31:46 PM

They won't let the shutdown hurt their campaign donors. And Trump has a history of folding and declaring victory. Besides, this has all happened before. Shutdowns last until it becomes clear who the public is blaming, and then that party caves.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#265930: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:40:08 PM

So how long until it eclipses the longest shutdown in history? When do you think it will end, and if it goes through April and people can’t file their taxes, will they be charged?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265931: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:43:30 PM

I'm saying that strategy requires a LOT of faith the Republicans don't think they can spin whatever bad thing happens as the fault of the Democrats or that they'll have cushy positions waiting for them after their office time.

The people most hurt by this are the poor and even if they lose their elections (hard because the poor not voting is something they've relied on heavily), they still have 7 figure salaries waiting them at Haliburton or Phillip Morris.

I mean, many Red States have been in this position of, "Surely the republicans will notice our good God fearing Christian suffering."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#265932: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:43:53 PM

@Savant: It's Congress that declares war and budgets it and such, so shouldn't foreign leaders take major strategic things up with Congress rather than the POTUS, who'd be more for those daily deals? Netanyahu certainly thought so.

Mc Connell and his peers should get visits from the Christmas Ghosts. They're so Scrooge-like it's hard to believe.

Edited by Oruka on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:47:19 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#265933: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:46:49 PM

Well, if it does last months or years, there will be a lot more new people entering Congress in 2020.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265934: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:46:55 PM

Theoretically, the Executive is supposed to be the foreign affairs branch and Congress the local branch.

Both sides have historically encroached on each other's territory, however.

Also, I'm assuming Pelosi was being sarcastic.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#265935: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:47:32 PM

[up]x6 Problem is, I believe Trump is so in his own world that he'll ignore every negative poll and every protest and every politician (even Republican) telling him to end the Shutdown, as long as that 20% are willing to suffer for the Glorious Wall/Steel Slats/Fence. He'd literally have to have everyone, and I mean everyone, telling him this Shutdown is bad and it's his fault for him to give up; if Hannity keeps egging him on, he won't surrender.

[up]x5 Taxes have to be filed every year; not even a Government Shutdown can prevent that. But what a Shutdown can do is keep people from receiving Tax Rebates (Returns on their Taxes), which is exactly what's going to happen with this Shutdown. And considering how many people actually receive Tax Rebate, especially poorer people in Republican States who rely on it, it'd be a bad idea to keep the Government shut down this long. And those Rebates are actually supposed to be handed out soon (around the same time Food Stamps become worthless), so...

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jan 6th 2019 at 7:48:06 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#265936: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:47:35 PM

I'm saying that strategy requires a LOT of faith the Republicans don't think they can spin whatever bad thing happens as the fault of the Democrats or that they'll have cushy positions waiting for them after their office time.

The people most hurt by this are the poor and even if they lose their elections (hard because the poor not voting is something they've relied on heavily), they still have 7 figure salaries waiting them at Haliburton or Phillip Morris.

I mean, many Red States have been in this position of, "Surely the republicans will notice our good God fearing Christian suffering."

I don't think it requires a lot of faith in the Republicans at all, the shutdown is clearly the responsibility of Trump and as it gets worse than with 2020 coming up you'll see even more Republicans worried about their positions and demanding action. It's perfectly in-character for them to eventually cave and end the shutdown.

Their entire thing is about party over country and if things are looking like it could less them Congress in 2020 then they'll backdown.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jan 6th 2019 at 7:48:54 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#265937: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:47:42 PM

Fair point, perhaps, but my opinion on Netanyahu isn't appreciably warmer than my opinion on Putin.

@Charles: Yeah, I assume so too. Certainly hope so.

It's been fun.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265938: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:48:40 PM

Actually, I think that was a joke to begin with.

We've just entered the Tyson Zone again.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#265939: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:52:49 PM

The Democrats need to pass budgets in the House, good budgets that contain things people want, and publicize them heavily. Full-on media and social media offensive. Make if very, very clear that they are trying to get government running again and that the Republicans are refusing the budget and choosing to keep it closed and make everyone suffer.

They need to make the Republicans and Trump unpopular enough that they cave. Otherwise the Democrats will cave and they’ll get nowhere despite having a House majority.

Right now people are blaming Republicans and Democrats about equally, and the Dems can’t win any political fights with that landscape.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 6th 2019 at 7:54:07 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#265940: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:56:48 PM

That's not really accurate, 51% of people think the Democrats have handled the shutdown poorly while 58% of people think that the Republicans have handled the shutdown poorly. A 7% difference isn't nothing.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#265941: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:00:03 PM

@Dingo: "Problem is, I believe Trump is so in his own world that he'll ignore every negative poll and every protest and every politician (even Republican) telling him to end the Shutdown..."

I think you are reading the situation wrong. Someone in the background has Trump on a leash. I can't say for certain who that is, I'll just point out that the Koch Brothers were openly against him, until suddenly one day they wernt anymore. I would also point out that Trump has made good (or tried to anyway) on nearly all his campaign promises, despite the fact that he has never expressed much interest in conservative politics. Its not that he listens to no one, its that he listens to very specific someones, and when they decide the shutdown is over, it will be over.

Edited by DeMarquis on Jan 6th 2019 at 8:00:53 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#265942: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:06:41 PM

So this has been the ad on the main YouTube page -

And I'll let Dan of Extra Credits sum my stance up:

"...they frame the question of sex trafficking as 'Mexican drug dealers are crossing the border to steal our women!' That is the most despicable perversion of truth I've seen in a game. That isn't how it happens! Mexican cartels don't come to the US to kidnap women! That doesn't even make sense! Kidnapping American women to sell in Mexico would be insanely risky on their part - and far less profitable than doing it the other way around. The overwhelming majority of sex trafficking between Mexico and the United States is Mexican women being kidnapped and then sold in the US. And yet, in Call of Juarez, they chose to falsify this."

Edited by ironballs16 on Jan 6th 2019 at 8:07:16 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265943: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:18:01 PM

Anyone who thinks Trump is on anyone's leash misunderstands him. Again, mostly because Mitch thought he had him on a leash.

Putin did as well.

In the end, Trump is uncontrollable because he lacks the attention span to care.

"...they frame the question of sex trafficking as 'Mexican drug dealers are crossing the border to steal our women!' That is the most despicable perversion of truth I've seen in a game. That isn't how it happens! Mexican cartels don't come to the US to kidnap women! That doesn't even make sense! Kidnapping American women to sell in Mexico would be insanely risky on their part - and far less profitable than doing it the other way around. The overwhelming majority of sex trafficking between Mexico and the United States is Mexican women being kidnapped and then sold in the US. And yet, in Call of Juarez, they chose to falsify this."

Reminds me of THE BRIDGE on FX where the show continually ran into the problem of their story (adapted from a murder mystery in Europe) was 1000 times less interesting than the actual horrifying shit in Juarez and El Paso.

Which a professor of mine summarized as, "Americans buy drugs from Mexico which the cartels use the money from to buy guns in America so they can sell more drugs..."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 6th 2019 at 5:20:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#265944: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:46:04 PM

Are we talking about the Pelosi going directly to Putin article from a few pages back? Coz I'm pretty sure that's from a satirical publication.

That we can't tell it's satire is the problem with this timeline....

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#265945: Jan 6th 2019 at 6:07:38 PM

Honestly, what I’m counting on is that as the shutdown wears on, other Republicans will get sick of it, and start pressuring Mc Connell to bring it to a vote.

Edited by megaeliz on Jan 6th 2019 at 9:08:30 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#265946: Jan 6th 2019 at 6:11:07 PM

They already are, but not to the point that they are willing to buck the party line. Yet.

The GOP is treating this whole thing like a game of chicken, dragging the rest of the country with them to the cliff edge. The Democratic Party by contrast are not treating this whole thing like a game but as the deadly serious problem it is.

Edited by M84 on Jan 6th 2019 at 10:12:44 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#265947: Jan 6th 2019 at 6:11:53 PM

In brighter news, Chris Wallace apparently pulled no punches when he had Huckasans on his show, calling her out for peddling misinformation about the "need" for a border wall.

When Sarah Huckabee Sanders appeared on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace, it's likely she was expecting more of the encouraging fawning that pervades the network so much of the time. What she got instead was fact-checking and push back. Wallace initially takes issue with Homeland Security secretary Kristjen Nielsen saying that DHS had stopped 3000 "special interest aliens" from entering the U.S.—Wallace points out that this designation only means that these are people who are from the same countries as other terrorists, not people who are suspected terrorists themselves.

Rather than address that point specifically, or at all, Sanders responds by claiming that 4000 "known or suspected terrorists" come into the U.S. illegally, and since the weakest point of entry is the southern border, we need a border wall. Wallace actually interrupts her here:

"Wait, wait, wait, because I know the statistic, I didn't know if you were gonna use it but I studied up on this. Do you know where those 4000 people come from, where they're captured? Airports. The State Department says there hasn't been any terrorist that they've found coming across the southern border."

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#265948: Jan 6th 2019 at 6:14:57 PM

[up][up]. Yet is the operative word here. Eventually, they’ll start to be inconvenienced by it, and just be sick of the whole thing in general.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#265949: Jan 6th 2019 at 6:51:38 PM

The actual article saying Pelosi was going directly to Putin had "Satire" at the top of the page in big red letters.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#265950: Jan 6th 2019 at 6:54:25 PM

Yeah, I can't imagine Pelosi actually being flippant enough to go "whatever".

Disgusted, but not surprised

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